Liberal Minority Government 2021 - ????

[Brad Sallows]

Taxes don't have to rise. A government can borrow until lenders stop lending; then it can pretend to borrow. The consequences are hard on people, but...taxes don't have to rise.

 

[Halifax Tar]

True, but a lot of other countries have higher, Spain, Italy, France, the UK, USA, Japan.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-gdp-1.6368400#:~:text=Business-,Canada's%20economy%20was%20growing%20at%206.7%25%20pace%20at%20the%20end,official%20data%20showed%20on%20Tuesday.

"Canada's economy grew 6.7 per cent in the fourth quarter on an annualized basis, beating analyst expectations of 6.5 per cent, while January GDP most likely rose 0.2 per cent after stagnating in December, Statistics Canada data showed."

Stephen Harper spent a boatload of money during the financial crisis of 2008-2009, and getting the economy back on track.

He didn't raise taxes. Neither did Justin Trudeau. I don't know why they are going to start now. We have been hearing this for over a decade, the "Oh, taxes are going to rise due to the debt and deficit". Have yet to see it.

I'm on my phone so I cant use all the cool dodads to make this reply nicer.

I don't care what other countries do. Not my problem. I am concerned about my country and its future both fiscal and otherwise.

Fair on the GFP growth I looked for that stat again and couldn't find it.

I'm glad no one raised taxes, let's not start now. See were in agreement. Didn't Harper cut taxes by a percentage or something ?

 

[Altair]

Taxes don't have to rise. A government can borrow until lenders stop lending; then it can pretend to borrow. The consequences are hard on people, but...taxes don't have to rise.

Greece still gets money lent to it. So does Argentina. Lenders will continue to lend, even if you're a fiscal basket case. It's just going to cost more to borrow.

But you're right, taxes do not need to rise. What would happen, should happen is slowing the rate of government spending down below the rate the economy is growing. Doing that consistently would bring the debt to GDP levels down, even while continuing to run deficits. Harper did it, Trudeau was doing it.

Will they do it in the future? Remains to be seen.

 

[Altair]

I'm on my phone so I cant use all the cool dodads to make this reply nicer.

Yeah, I run into that as well.

I don't care what other countries do. Not my problem. I am concerned about my country and its future both fiscal and otherwise.

It's not our problem, but one can use them as a point of comparison. Is it true that canadas debt to GDP is rising? Yes. Is it manageable? Compared to our peers, yes it is.

Fair on the GDP growth I looked for that stat again and couldn't find it.

January was slow, but the last quarter the economy was red hot. I don't think that the Canadian economy can run at +4 percent growth every year, but if the expenditures can be kept in the 2.5-3 percent growth range and the economy can outperform 3 percent growth a year, then we are on the right track.

I'm glad no one raised taxes, let's not start now. See were in agreement. Didn't Harper cut taxes by a percentage or something ?

It wont start now. There used to be a time when politicians would raise taxes. Now they slow spending or just add to the deficit, they are not raising taxes. For all the bluster from one side about a tax and spend LPC, or even LPC/NDP, the LPC have not raised taxes. Not the GST, not personal income tax (they raised it for high income earners and lowered it for "middle class" as a campaign promise but not any more than that), not corporate taxes.

Now it can be fairly argued that we are spending more on debt servicing, and the like, but this raising taxes thing hasn't happened for quite a while.

And Harper did lower the GST. Trudeau hasn't touched it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

We raise taxes every year in which we borrow (which essentially is future taxation). Yes, some of the liability can be paid out of other revenues. But mostly, taxes.

 

[Altair]

We raise taxes every year in which we borrow (which essentially is future taxation). Yes, some of the liability can be paid out of other revenues. But mostly, taxes.

This is untrue. Debt to GDP dropped under Harper post 2011. He didn't raise taxes.

Debt to GDP dropped under Trudeau, before covid. He didn't raise taxes.

As the debt gets smaller in comparison to the size of the economy, the easier it is to service and pay down, without raising taxes.

Quebec has been paying down its debt, they didn't raise taxes.

Alberta is paying down its debt, they didn't raise taxes.

This debt today, higher taxes tomorrow thing is a fallacy.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I didn't write about debt. I wrote about borrowing. I suppose a government could stop taxing entirely and do nothing but borrow and pretend it's not taxing...for a few years.

Future tax rates could be higher or lower, depending on other expenditures.

 

[Altair]

I didn't write about debt. I wrote about borrowing. I suppose a government could stop taxing entirely and do nothing but borrow and pretend it's not taxing...for a few years.

Future tax rates could be higher or lower, depending on other expenditures.

We raise taxes every year in which we borrow (which essentially is future taxation). Yes, some of the liability can be paid out of other revenues. But mostly, taxes.

You have a weird definition of raising taxes, but I'll allow it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If we had no debt and took on no debt, we'd not pay to service debt, and certainly would not have to borrow to service it. Instead that money would be available for other spending, or tax (or other revenue) cuts. But someone in the past borrowed, and we service the debt rather than default (which would effectively just amount to a one-time tax of the default amount on all the debt holders). Some years we pay current taxes to service debt, and some years we borrow. In the end, it's all higher taxes imposed by people in our past, who effectively limited our fiscal freedom of manouevre in our present. We should stop doing the same to future taxpayers. That we are "investing" is bullsh!t; very little public spending is "investment".

 

[Altair]

If we had no debt and took on no debt, we'd not pay to service debt, and certainly would not have to borrow to service it. Instead that money would be available for other spending, or tax (or other revenue) cuts. But someone in the past borrowed, and we service the debt rather than default (which would effectively just amount to a one-time tax of the default amount on all the debt holders). Some years we pay current taxes to service debt, and some years we borrow. In the end, it's all higher taxes imposed by people in our past, who effectively limited our fiscal freedom of manouevre in our present. We should stop doing the same to future taxpayers. That we are "investing" is bullsh!t; very little public spending is "investment".

This would be true if taxes were lowered when not being spent on debt servicing. As it stands, it usually isn't. So the taxes paid at tax time is going to be the same, the only difference being the amount of services one gets out of their taxes paid.

At the end of the day, politicians have not been raising taxes recently. It's a shell game to some extent, I would agree with that, but come tax time the rates are not being increased which is what people care about.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Looks like Trudeau's speech in the EU wasn't well attended and definitely met with push back.

Prime Minister Trudeau called ‘dictator’ to his face in blistering speech in European Parliament

It wasn’t the response Prime Minister Trudeau was hoping for. In fact in a career filled with humiliations on various international trips, Wednesday’s speech at the EU in Brussels has …

www.todayville.com

 

[Altair]

Looks like Trudeau's speech in the EU wasn't well attended and definitely met with push back.

Prime Minister Trudeau called ‘dictator’ to his face in blistering speech in European Parliament

It wasn’t the response Prime Minister Trudeau was hoping for. In fact in a career filled with humiliations on various international trips, Wednesday’s speech at the EU in Brussels has …

www.todayville.com

This guy?

In January 2022, Kolakušić addressed French President Emmanuel Macron during a legislative session, arguing that vaccination must remain a choice, and compared vaccine mandates with capital punishment, claiming that tens of thousands had died from it citing data from the European Medicines Agency. The European Medicines Agency said in a response that the cited data was a public, self-reported database of suspected side effects which did not report deaths and would require further scientific investigation to find any causal link between the reports and the COVID-19 vaccine.

I would imagine individual members of the European parliament who equate vaccine mandates to capital pubishment would be backers of the freedom convoy.

 

[Halifax Tar]

This guy?

I would imagine individual members of the European parliament who equate vaccine mandates to capital pubishment would be backers of the freedom convoy.

So yes it met with push back ?

 

[Altair]

So yes it met with push back ?

Yes.

This guy

Fact Check-Claim of tens of thousands of vaccine-related EU deaths is based on a misreading of data

A Croatian politician’s claim that tens of thousands of Europeans have died as a result of COVID-19 vaccines is based on a misreading of data, the drugs regulator of the European Union has told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

A Croatian politician’s claim that tens of thousands of Europeans have died as a result of COVID-19 vaccines is based on a misreading of data, the drugs regulator of the European Union has told Reuters.

Mislav Kolakušić, a member of the European Parliament (MEP), told the parliament’s session on Jan. 21 that he believed vaccination should remain a choice for EU citizens and compared mandates to capital punishment and murder.

Addressing French President Emmanuel Macron directly, Kolakušić said: “Today you said that you are proud there is no death penalty in Europe. Tens of thousands of citizens have died due to vaccine side effects. Mandatory vaccinations represent death penalty and its execution for many citizens. That has to remain a choice for every citizen.

“Murder is murder. Those of you who don’t know that and haven’t educated yourselves, take a look at the European health organisation

Seems he makes a habit of pushing back against foreign leaders talking to the European Parliament.

Lets see who else.

Christine Anderson. German MEP. What party? Far right ADF party. Oh, so a PPC type party. No surprise there.

Who else?Christian Terhes. From one of the main parties in Romania, okay.

So 3 out of 705 members.

Yes, a lot of pushback.

 

[Halifax Tar]

There is also this...

Majority of seats empty during Trudeau’s speech to European Parliament

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had trouble filling out the seats of European Parliament during his speech.

thepostmillennial.com

 

[Altair]

There is also this...

Majority of seats empty during Trudeau’s speech to European Parliament

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had trouble filling out the seats of European Parliament during his speech.

thepostmillennial.com

Entirely fair point.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Looks like Trudeau's speech in the EU wasn't well attended and definitely met with push back.

Prime Minister Trudeau called ‘dictator’ to his face in blistering speech in European Parliament

It wasn’t the response Prime Minister Trudeau was hoping for. In fact in a career filled with humiliations on various international trips, Wednesday’s speech at the EU in Brussels has …

www.todayville.com

Lots of clapping at the end of that callout.

 

[Eaglelord17]

This would be true if taxes were lowered when not being spent on debt servicing. As it stands, it usually isn't. So the taxes paid at tax time is going to be the same, the only difference being the amount of services one gets out of their taxes paid.

At the end of the day, politicians have not been raising taxes recently. It's a shell game to some extent, I would agree with that, but come tax time the rates are not being increased which is what people care about.

What are you talking about, taxes have been going up steadily since Trudeau took power, its called Carbon Tax. Just because they haven't raised the GST or HST, doesn't mean they aren't increasing taxes in other ways.

Our country needs a wake up and to get its finances in control both on many provincial and federal budgets. Stupid things like tax cuts at the moment (looking at you Ford with your licence plate registration fee being cut) hurt our childrens future when we can't even balance a budget let alone create a surplus. We need to start paying down our debt, especially before the interest rates go up and we need to take out more debt to service our debt.

Adding more services to a system which already isn't paying for what services it is receiving isn't logical. The only way to pay for it is to increase taxes somewhere or to make cuts somewhere. Seeing as this government is insistent in expanding not limiting the expenditures, I know which one will be required in the future.

 

[QV]

What are you talking about, taxes have been going up steadily since Trudeau took power, its called Carbon Tax. Just because they haven't raised the GST or HST, doesn't mean they aren't increasing taxes in other ways.

Our country needs a wake up and to get its finances in control both on many provincial and federal budgets. Stupid things like tax cuts at the moment (looking at you Ford with your licence plate registration fee being cut) hurt our childrens future when we can't even balance a budget let alone create a surplus. We need to start paying down our debt, especially before the interest rates go up and we need to take out more debt to service our debt.

Adding more services to a system which already isn't paying for what services it is receiving isn't logical. The only way to pay for it is to increase taxes somewhere or to make cuts somewhere. Seeing as this government is insistent in expanding not limiting the expenditures, I know which one will be required in the future.

Now now... he said the carbon tax would put more money in everyone's pockets. The higher the carbon tax the more money for everyone!

 

[Altair]

What are you talking about, taxes have been going up steadily since Trudeau took power, its called Carbon Tax. Just because they haven't raised the GST or HST, doesn't mean they aren't increasing taxes in other ways.

The federal one pays it back to people, so I'm not counting it. I personally get back more than I spend and this will be more so once I get my electric car this year or next.

Our country needs a wake up and to get its finances in control both on many provincial and federal budgets. Stupid things like tax cuts at the moment (looking at you Ford with your licence plate registration fee being cut) hurt our childrens future when we can't even balance a budget let alone create a surplus. We need to start paying down our debt, especially before the interest rates go up and we need to take out more debt to service our debt.

Adding more services to a system which already isn't paying for what services it is receiving isn't logical. The only way to pay for it is to increase taxes somewhere or to make cuts somewhere. Seeing as this government is insistent in expanding not limiting the expenditures, I know which one will be required in the future.

Except this isnt what Harper or Trudeau have done. Neither of them raised taxes or cut services, did they?