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Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???
- Thread starter Altair
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So, Bill C-2 is titled “An Act respecting certain measures relating to the security of the border between Canada and the United States and respecting other related security measures”.
Given the title and what it says about the purpose of the bill, and given that we know the context to in large part be immigration laxness and transborder organized crime, I’m curious what specific portions of it you feel are beyond its scope?
ArmyRick
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I didn't bring up bill C2. You did.
I have questions (its a biggy). The business about obtaining internet info from (I think if I get it) subscriber list/service providers raises an eyebrow. I also understand they want to go through mail coming from abroad without a warrant. A little concerning.
Th $10,000 cash transactions I have mixed feelings about. I understand Chinese criminals launder money through BC casinos and buy property in Canada, so if thats the aim, I get it. Now, my father in his business dealings only a few years ago had done several large cash transactions (buying bulldozers or cranes on the spot involves large amounts of cash and the old man is old school). So there are concerns.
I am still following more info from about this bill.
That being said, I still have an issue with omnibus bills and/or poison apple bills.
ArmyRick
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At the Toronto Zoo? I am gonna need a lot of rum to work up the courage to insult the bears face to face.
Well no, you quoted a reply by @lenaitch to a post by @CBH99 that was part of the larger conversation around C-2… And we’re in the liberal government thread. So there wasn’t anything else for me to reasonably think you were talking about. But anyway.
Not sure if you saw it but I went into that part at great length in this thread a couple days ago, in case you’re interested. It’s more constrained than is being portrayed.
Specifically they’re expanding the ability of Canada Post to inspect the contents of lettermail, on top of existing authority to inspect the context of parcels, in order to ensure the postal system isn’t being used inappropriately. The lettermail exception has been widely abused in recent months to mail <30g quantities of Fentanyl. One example that’s now public due to recent seizures that were announced: CBSA operation leads to seizure of fentanyl, other narcotics
Suffice to say this problem is broadly known to law enforcement, but there’s not been as much out there yet for the media to specifically report on.
Concerns are fair on this one, but yes, the large cash transactions is squarely aimed at money laundering. Each time PC(ML)TFA is amended, the launderers work to find their next workaround, and then a while later the government regulates or legislates those shut. But absolutely, of the provisions in C-2 I think this one needs the most careful scrutiny and probably some adjustment so it’s not overly expansive.
Fair. I’m just approaching this from a standpoint of ‘omnibus’ meaning a bill is expansive in scope beyond a single coherent focus, even if that focus means amending several statutes. I’m personally of the view that C-2 is pretty much all squarely within its stated intent.
ArmyRick
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I have more faith in Carney to deliver a bill in "good faith" than JT. I do see where they are going. At the end of the day, I pray their are no weasels slipping "dirty" components into any bill.
For C2 specifically, its a tough one
-STOP Chinese money Landering and fentanyl components
-BUT don't interfere with our mail, email or cash transactions
-BUT STOP the crime.
We want our cake and ice cream, but please no ice cream. Its a tough one and whatever happens we have to best support police to do their job.
Just to elaborate a bit more on the mail inspection, and add one part that I missed that’s important:
The threshold for inspecting lettermail links back to regulations on ‘non-mailable matter’, but inspection of lettermail will have to be based on ‘reasonable suspicion’. That’s a term that shows up frequently in criminal law and it requires there be an evidentiary basis. Canada Post already has this authority for parcels; they’ve just realized that opioids by lettermail has become a huge thing and they didn’t have tools for that.
The thing I forgot the act also amends regarding mail, is it’ll allow police to carry out search warrants against mail. Right low lettermail in the course of post is immune from that; there’s damned near a sanctity of lettermail built into the Canada Post Corporation Act. This amendment will allow a judicially authorized search or general warrant to be carried out on mail in post. Again in the context of the mass mailing of <30g quantities of Fentanyl, this matters a lot.
Sorry, can’t believe I forgot that last part.
Yup, lots of dilemmas. Nothing in this bill will be a godsend to law enforcement, but it does provide a number of smaller fixes and modernizations that are badly overdue.
The balance between privacy and intrusiveness is always going to be there, and our best way of squaring the circle is by applying through the courts for warrants so we at least have to make a convincing argument for why we should be allowed to do the thing.
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I've only recently learned how much of a concern mail & courier services are re: shipping of fentanyl and associated chemicals, so I'm not surprised to see those specific measures thrown out there.
OPP seize largest amount of fentanyl in force’s history
Investigators say none of the drugs were destined for the U.S.
www.theglobeandmail.com
Ontario police bust alleged dark-web trafficking network that used Canada Post to ship drugs
Ontario Provincial Police say they’ve dismantled a drug ring that allegedly used the dark web and Canada Post to ship drugs across the country.
www.ctvnews.ca
https://macleans.ca/politics/fentanyl-mail/ (from 2019)
Fentanyl in mail target of new Senate bill - The Progressive Senate Group
OTTAWA, November 22, 2022 – Proposed new legislation in Canada’s Senate would close a loophole that currently impedes police from seizing fentanyl and other ...
theprogressives.ca
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I think it would depend on what we get in return.
HavokFour
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The Economist took down the article in question. If I had a guess, they jumped the gun somewhat and more importantly was an opinion piece.
Here's the now removed article, for anyone curious.
Dead link: https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2025/06/11/carneys-colossal-canada-us-pact
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Given the power differential, I don't know how much would be enough to satisfy enough people. We'll see ...
Czech_pivo
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Is it dirty politics as you say or being prudent with the situation on the ground?
Article seems light on details and doesn't speak to anything that I would call is 'net new'.
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On the "let the development work motor on" front ....
www.thecanadianpressnews.ca
FYI, Anishinabek Nation (if you're old enough, you might remember the group as the Union of Ontario Indians) covers a good chunk of Ontario, with member First Nations located near big population areas and major transportation arteries ....
Anishinabek Nation chief says he briefed OPP on protests against fast-track bills
OTTAWA - A regional chief for Anishinabek Nation says he briefed Ontario Provincial Police yesterday on what to expect when First Nations take to the streets to protest provincial and
Seems like the prudent move, good on them for doing so
Rare for The Economist to swing and miss. Credit to them for retracting responsibly and publicly.
lenaitch
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I'm pretty confident that OPP command staff in the room wouldn't have a "deer in the headlights" response. They are very aware of the treaty relationship between FNTs and government. Interesting that he would invoke the Dudley George incident for dramatic effect.On the "let the development work motor on" front ....
FYI, Anishinabek Nation (if you're old enough, you might remember the group as the Union of Ontario Indians) covers a good chunk of Ontario, with member First Nations located near big population areas and major transportation arteries ....Anishinabek Nation chief says he briefed OPP on protests against fast-track bills
OTTAWA - A regional chief for Anishinabek Nation says he briefed Ontario Provincial Police yesterday on what to expect when First Nations take to the streets to protest provincial and
View attachment 93909
OPP are definitely staying well in the loop on all this.
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On the "let the development work motor on" front ....
FYI, Anishinabek Nation (if you're old enough, you might remember the group as the Union of Ontario Indians) covers a good chunk of Ontario, with member First Nations located near big population areas and major transportation arteries ....Anishinabek Nation chief says he briefed OPP on protests against fast-track bills
OTTAWA - A regional chief for Anishinabek Nation says he briefed Ontario Provincial Police yesterday on what to expect when First Nations take to the streets to protest provincial and
View attachment 93909
Interesting twist
Wab Kinew - Wikipedia
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