Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???

[The Bread Guy]

Putting questions to the AFN or equivalent organization would be an answer.

That’s like saying Prime Minister Carney speaks for every province and every Canadian. Imagine how broad and non-specific something would have to be to get that level of consensus. Now, pull together the (very rough) equivalent of 600+ Premiers and see what you get.

People wrongly assume FNs are a unified bloc. Regional, provincial and national bodies are simply lobby groups.

Bang on - and each FN will remind government at more than one level that their ancestors signed the treaties, not the leaders of the umbrella orgs that didn’t even exist then. So it’s the communities, not the umbrella organizations, that are the rights holders where the buck stops.

Mind you, national governments in the past have encouraged/funded such aggregate groups in hopes of getting unitary positions like other governments. Ya reap what ya sow …

 

[Eaglelord17]

I would argue the duty to consult is met by talking to the regions MP. Last I checked our Members of Parliament represent us all and are elected by us all (indigenous or not). Therefore they are being consulted just not getting vetos.

 

[Kirkhill]

That’s like saying Prime Minister Carney speaks for every province and every Canadian. Imagine how broad and non-specific something would have to be to get that level of consensus. Now, pull together the (very rough) equivalent of 600+ Premiers and see what you get.

Bang on - and each FN will remind government at more than one level that their ancestors signed the treaties, not the leaders of the umbrella orgs that didn’t even exist then. So it’s the communities, not the umbrella organizations, that are the rights holders where the buck stops.

Mind you, national governments in the past have encouraged/funded such aggregate groups in hopes of getting unitary positions like other governments. Ya reap what ya sow …

That sounds as if you need someone more democratically minded to herd those cats. Authoritarians need not apply.

First Nations or Congregations or Ridings. Clubs and Associations.

Zwingli, Calvin, Knox.

Digression.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I would argue the duty to consult is met by talking to the regions MP. Last I checked our Members of Parliament represent us all and are elected by us all (indigenous or not). Therefore they are being consulted just not getting vetos.

Outside of the issue of "what if the MP/MPP isn't a government MP/MPP?", official "consultation" on projects is WAY more than just chatting with a rep in a band office & telling someone, "yeah, the guy I talked to said they were good to go." I'm far from an expert, but it's essentially a process to make sure that whenever a government does something (approves a project, builds/fixes something, etc.) that Treaty obligations are met -- including making project changes/accommodations if needed to make sure that happens. With all due respect to MP's and the work they do, this is outside their scope.

Here's the federal "book" on it ...

Aboriginal Consultation and Accommodation - Updated Guidelines for Federal Officials to Fulfill the Duty to Consult - March 2011

In the Haida and Taku River decisions in 2004, and the Mikisew Cree decision in 2005, the Supreme Court of Canada held that the Crown has a duty to consult and, where appropriate, accommodate when the Crown contemplates conduct that might adversely impact potential or established Aboriginal or...

www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca

... and Ontario's ...

Duty to consult with Aboriginal peoples in Ontario

Information on Ontario’s duty to consult Aboriginal peoples.

www.ontario.ca

... with each province having different variations on the general theme, based on their own particular situations.

That sounds as if you need someone more democratically minded to herd those cats. Authoritarians need not apply.

Well, given we've had a mixed bag of reaching consensus within our own federation of PM's and Premiers over history, some might say we may not in an ideal position to offer useful advice on that front

 

[quadrapiper]

That’s like saying Prime Minister Carney speaks for every province and every Canadian. Imagine how broad and non-specific something would have to be to get that level of consensus. Now, pull together the (very rough) equivalent of 600+ Premiers and see what you get.

I don't really care about mechanics, just "a decision."

The process (committee of the whole, regional sub-assemblies, per-request groups; majority, consensus, supermajority, whatever), as far as an outside entity looking for indigenous input, matters far less than that the decision is accepted by affected indigenous peoples and is delivered in a moderately timely manner.

Making the national indigenous body responsible for figuring out what that looks like, and the functioning as the point of contact for federal indigenous consultation or decision-making above a certain degree of complexity seems logical.

 

[The Bread Guy]

I don't really care about mechanics, just "a decision."

The process (committee of the whole, regional sub-assemblies, per-request groups; majority, consensus, supermajority, whatever), as far as an outside entity looking for indigenous input, matters far less than that the decision is accepted by affected indigenous peoples and is delivered in a moderately timely manner.

Given all the steps, a lot of cynics laugh about the "timeliness" of the process

Making the national indigenous body responsible for figuring out what that looks like, and the functioning as the point of contact for federal indigenous consultation or decision-making above a certain degree of complexity seems logical.

Thinking linearly, yeah, it does make sense. But again, if you can't get Alberta/Quebec on side with the other provinces on more than one issue, how easy and realistic would it be for a group of 600 rights holders to reach a consensus on rules? Not to mention Chiefs who don't like the group's rules will go off and insist on their own processes. It would be nice, but ....

 

[Kirkhill]

The secret sauce is in letting 600 first nations act in their own interests.

Rather than government decreeing that a pipeline will be built over these lands, far better to allow likeminded nations to come together to deliver a route. The original joint-stock companies.

Likewise in the Ring of Fire. And in BC. Work with those that want to work with you.

....

Frankly I would have loved to see an Inuit and Cree buyout of the HBC brand.

 

[MilEME09]

CPC doing what CPC does best under this leader, vote against anything and everything the gov puts down. Once again showing Pierre Poilievre’s party doesn't care about holding the government accountable or helping Canadians, it just says no.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1928560999537283076

 

[Jarnhamar]

No budget no bill. I'm fine with holding off on giving the Liberals a $500,000,000,000 check until they show Canadians how it will be used.

 

[Quirky]

helping Canadians,

With more inflationary spending? Ok.

 

[dapaterson]

No budget no bill. I'm fine with holding off on giving the Liberals a $500,000,000,000 check until they show Canadians how it will be used.

The main estimates is the budget.

 

[MilEME09]

With more inflationary spending? Ok.

The CPC promised spending too, and strangely Pierre just released a video saying the spending bill doesn't go far enough. I'd rather spending spending that spurs economic growth, we are already up 2.2% which is outpacing inflation.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The main estimates is the budget.

The Liberals promised a $40B deficit then blasted through the "guard rails" and hit almost $62B. That's not an accounting error.

Liberals word when it comes to money isnt worth much.

Besides Carney is a Harvard educated super economist with a PhD and experience running two world banks. I keep reading how incredibly qualified be is. I'm sure he can do better than some estimates where tax dollars are going to go.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The secret sauce is in letting 600 first nations act in their own interests.

Rather than government decreeing that a pipeline will be built over these lands, far better to allow likeminded nations to come together to deliver a route. The original joint-stock companies.

On some projects, this could work. However ....

Likewise in the Ring of Fire.

... here, the minerals didn't choose to go into a specific area, so you're left with whoever's there, and if one of them can hire a lawyer to gum things up, they might.

 

[Czech_pivo]

The Liberals promised a $40B deficit then blasted through the "guard rails" and hit almost $62B. That's not an accounting error.

Liberals word when it comes to money isnt worth much.

Besides Carney is a Harvard educated super economist with a PhD and experience running two world banks. I keep reading how incredibly qualified be is. I'm sure he can do better than some estimates where tax dollars are going to go.

They fricking had a journalist as the Fin Min for years- competency was a non-starter

 

[brihard]

Meh. The Conservatives will posture, the estimates will pass anyway, and the government will carry on with governing.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... I'm sure he can do better than some estimates where tax dollars are going to go.

The Main Estimates for any government are kinda like a blueprint of what's planned for spending for the year, on stuff that's already in place without needing a budget to make changes. It's no more of a "guess" than any other government that's ever done Main Estimates as part of the budget process.

Yeah, not having a plan showing what else they'll be doing is not a good look, but this is part of the routine of keeping the lights on, no matter what party is in power.

 

[lenaitch]

I would argue the duty to consult is met by talking to the regions MP. Last I checked our Members of Parliament represent us all and are elected by us all (indigenous or not). Therefore they are being consulted just not getting vetos.

The treaties are with the Crown and the will of the Crown in Canada is exercised through the Governor General in Council; i.e. Cabinet.

The government has previously adopted the UN Declaration of the Rights of Indigenous Peoples that they have the right of 'free, prior and informed consent' on matters affecting their people, communities or territories. The limits of that have not been well tested but, in essence, sounds like a veto to me.

 

[lenaitch]

I don't really care about mechanics, just "a decision."

The process (committee of the whole, regional sub-assemblies, per-request groups; majority, consensus, supermajority, whatever), as far as an outside entity looking for indigenous input, matters far less than that the decision is accepted by affected indigenous peoples and is delivered in a moderately timely manner.

Making the national indigenous body responsible for figuring out what that looks like, and the functioning as the point of contact for federal indigenous consultation or decision-making above a certain degree of complexity seems logical.

In order for that to be legally binding I think there would have to be some form of 'uber treaty' or something. A piece of government legislation would only bind the Crown side and, push come to shove, a FN could say the umbrella group no longer speaks for them. A similarity would be a union being the legal bargaining unit for a group of employees.

The secret sauce is in letting 600 first nations act in their own interests.

Rather than government decreeing that a pipeline will be built over these lands, far better to allow likeminded nations to come together to deliver a route. The original joint-stock companies.

Likewise in the Ring of Fire. And in BC. Work with those that want to work with you.

Which is fine, until a band or group of bands say 'no', period. Then where is our 'national interest' project.

Frankly I would have loved to see an Inuit and Cree buyout of the HBC brand.

I guess they were free to make a case to court, which they chose not to. I suspect there might be some lobbying for any 'appropriated' FN artifacts.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Yeah, not having a plan showing what else they'll be doing is not a good look, but this is part of the routine of keeping the lights on, no matter what party is in power.

Right. The government will have to figure it out since Canadians didn't give the Liberals a majority.