Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???

[Halifax Tar]

Sweeping Carney announcement could include EV mandate review

CTV News has learned that Mark Carney and a group of ministers will make a broad series of 'sector-based' announcements Friday, aimed at increasing Canada’s competitiveness, supporting sectors impacted most by tariffs and spurring domestic industry.

www.ctvnews.ca

*Quoting your article, not you @Remius

Fantastic but I have a couple of questions/points:

(1) Are we now comfortable in admitting that the previous 10 years of LPC Gov was a a disaster ?

(2) Announcements are great, I want deliverables.

(3) If the LPC is just going to flip flop to which ever way the populace is leaning; and be principled on nothing can we now call them a populist party ?

This is amazing, they won for 10 years by pushing the NDP out and now they are reversing that play book at the CPC. The ability to go port 30 to starboard 30 is quite amazing.

I think this was inevitable; the dates were ambitious at best, but there was never any reinvestment in the (mostly privatized) power distribution grid to enable it, and EVs are realistically impractical to be wholesale adopted in a country the size of ours with the population density and distances between places we have.

Great for city runners though, and the new smart chargers that just got incorporated into the CEC that automatically down rate until the load on the panel drops off (ie at night) makes it actually practical for all the people that can't upgrade to 200 A panels even if they want to, just because the grids are tapped out.

I have 100A service at my house. I would honestly not be comfortable attaching a charging station and I am not interested in the added cost of upgrading my panel.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think like everything else, it depends on outside influences.

California has a mandate of 100 percent EV sales by 2035. That's a population and economy much larger than Canada.

Many EU countries, like UK (2035), France(2040), Germany (2035) have EV mandates. If most of the world switches to EVs, companies are not going to continue supplying Canada with ICE vehicles because we just are not that big a market.

That said, the foolish part was thinking that we could be the leading edge of this. The global vehicle market needs to force the change and we will be dragged along whether we like it or not. But if big markets like Europe and the USA don't make that change, we cannot force it on our own.

So might as well get ride of the mandate, or push it back to 2040-2045 when we know what the global trend will be, at which point it will largely be moot.

We shouldn't be mandating anything. Let the market decide. If people want EVs the the auto sector will make them.

 

[Halifax Tar]

On the subject of youth and bad driving:

Montreal driver fined $3,300, given 42 demerit points for speeding

The driver was going a whopping 250 km/h—some 180 km/h over the posted speed limit on the Decarie Expressway

driving.ca

We have issues with stunting out here too. Take their car and license for 5 years.

Google Search

 

[Altair]

We shouldn't be mandating anything. Let the market decide. If people want EVs the the auto sector will make them.

We as in Canada or we as in globally?

In Canada, sure, get rid of it. It wont matter if the rest of the global economy decides to make the switch to making solely EVs between 2030-2040, we will be going along for the ride. Or if the global economy doesn't, then we wont either.

Globally? That ship has sailed, a lot of Europe and the biggest state in the USA has already committed to making the switch, if they keep their fingers on the scale, and others join them, it's a fait accompli.

 

[Halifax Tar]

We as in Canada or we as in globally?

In Canada, sure, get rid of it. It wont matter if the rest of the global economy decides to make the switch to making solely EVs between 2030-2040, we will be going along for the ride. Or if the global economy doesn't, then we wont either.

Globally? That ship has sailed, a lot of Europe and the biggest state in the USA has already committed to making the switch, if they keep their fingers on the scale, and others join them, it's a fait accompli.

North America.

 

[Altair]

North America.

Lets see... Even with Canada dropping it...

California, Colorado, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Virginia, Vermont, Washington and Washington DC have adopted California's EV mandate.

Combined population of 115m give or take, which makes me wonder if that's enough to push the American auto market to mostly EVs.

I guess we will know in 15 years.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Lets see... Even with Canada dropping it...

California, Colorado, Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Virginia, Vermont, Washington and Washington DC have adopted California's EV mandate.

Combined population of 125m give or take, which makes me wonder if that's enough to push the American auto market to mostly EVs.

I guess we will know in 15 years.

I know you tend to look for confrontation on these means but you haven't found it here.

You realize I'm not ant-ev right ? I am not sure its the right choice to replace my F150, yet. But I am confident that in the future I will be driving an EV. I just want it to be by my choice.

 

[Altair]

I know you tend to look for confrontation on these means but you haven't found it here.

You realize I'm not ant-ev right ? I am not sure its the right choice to replace my F150, yet. But I am confident that in the future I will be driving an EV. I just want it to be by my choice.

I really don't tend to look for confrontation.

I don't care much one way or another about EV mandates in Canada. Canada isn't going to be the deciding factor here. If China, Europe, a good chunk or all of the USA goes EV, what are we going to do about it? Create a indigenous auto manufacturer to build ICE vehicles for the Canadian market? And if the USA in particular doesn't go EV, what were we to do? Force EVs through despite the big automakers not doing it?

I think Canada is awesome, and I think we punch above our weight in a lot of aspects, but I don't think we move the needle that much in terms of large global industrial models. The future of EVs and ICE in Canada will be decided in the USA and what they end up doing. Choice has little to do with it.

Case in point, I liked the ford fusion. Ford doesn't make it anymore. Thus I no longer have the option to buy new ones. Eventually, there will be no more ford fusions at all. I have no choice in the matter. Same thing applies to ICE or EVs.

 

[Remius]

*Quoting your article, not you @Remius

Fantastic but I have a couple of questions/points:

(1) Are we now comfortable in admitting that the previous 10 years of LPC Gov was a a disaster ?

That a lot of it was a disaster? Sure. A majority of Canadians have voted against that party for several cycles so that isn’t necessarily new. But I would argue the opposition was a larger disaster in that they couldn’t quite give Canadians the alternative they wanted. It seems Carney has delivered that alternative for now. People would also have to be comfortable with the fact that this is in fact not the same old LPC.

(2) Announcements are great, I want deliverables.

See above. Agreed. Once we see deliverables we’ll know or not. So far I like what I see.

(3) If the LPC is just going to flip flop to which ever way the populace is leaning; and be principled on nothing can we now call them a populist party ?

Not quite. That isn’t what populism is.

This is amazing, they won for 10 years by pushing the NDP out and now they are reversing that play book at the CPC. The ability to go port 30 to starboard 30 is quite amazing.

Correct. But it’s more than just a play book change. Carney it seems delivered what is essentially a centrist position. A progressive conservative/blue grit option that was missing. It is the closest thing to what the CFP had on offer.

I have 100A service at my house. I would honestly not be comfortable attaching a charging station and I am not interested in the added cost of upgrading my panel.

A lot of new home builds have been offering that option for a while. In 2018 my wife and I declined it. A few homes on our street did add it. I’m not sold on an EV at this time but our next vehicle may very well be a hybrid depending on a few factors.

 

[suffolkowner]

Seems hard to believe that the North American auto industry cant make PHEVs with an 80km range, when im pretty sure they all offer better than that already in their lineup. And they have 10 yrs to do so for passenger vehicles

I think like everything else, it depends on outside influences.

California has a mandate of 100 percent EV sales by 2035. That's a population and economy much larger than Canada.

Many EU countries, like UK (2035), France(2040), Germany (2035) have EV mandates. If most of the world switches to EVs, companies are not going to continue supplying Canada with ICE vehicles because we just are not that big a market.

That said, the foolish part was thinking that we could be the leading edge of this. The global vehicle market needs to force the change and we will be dragged along whether we like it or not. But if big markets like Europe and the USA don't make that change, we cannot force it on our own.

So might as well get ride of the mandate, or push it back to 2040-2045 when we know what the global trend will be, at which point it will largely be moot.

seems like from your post were not the leading edge at all just following the crowd and mandating something that every manufacturer already offers and exceeds right now

 

[Halifax Tar]

A lot of new home builds have been offering that option for a while. In 2018 my wife and I declined it. A few homes on our street did add it. I’m not sold on an EV at this time but our next vehicle may very well be a hybrid depending on a few factors.

My home isn't new. Built sometime in the late 40s or early 50s. And we've had to pull and replace aluminum wiring that we've found in the walls.

I'm sketchy about putting too much pressure on my electrical system.

I am defiantly interested in an EV truck, but I need it to be able to do truck things as good or better than a V8 or diesel first. But if I was a 100% urban hockey dad, with a diff house, I would have a Ford Lightening.

 

[Remius]

My home isn't new. Built sometime in the late 40s or early 50s. And we've had to pull and replace aluminum wiring that we've found in the walls.

I'm sketchy about putting too much pressure on my electrical system.

You should be. You would likely have to redo your whole electrical system. Part of the upsell they tried with us was to get the charging station but also pay to upgrade our electrical even more than it was.

I am defiantly interested in an EV truck, but I need it to be able to do truck things as good or better than a V8 or diesel first. But if I was a 100% urban hockey dad, with a diff house, I would have a Ford Lightening.

As you mentioned, supply and demand. For me it is about convenience. I don’t want to fight for a charging station or have to wait for a charge or have my travel route dictated by available charge stations. Hybrid for me is a good compromise. My friend has a hybrid CRV and loves it.

 

[Furniture]

I think a lot of the EV talk ignores the reality that manufacturers are discovering there isn't really enough cost savings in scaling up production to make them affordable, meaning customers aren't interested in EVs without massive subsidies.

PHEVs start at $50K CAD, if you can actually find one... Most Canadians can't realistically afford a car costing $800-1000 a month. Particularly the people who need a car to get them back and forth to work each day, because most towns and cities have terrible public transit.

EV mandates make good headlines, but terrible policy.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You should be. You would likely have to redo your whole electrical system. Part of the upsell they tried with us was to get the charging station but also pay to upgrade our electrical even more than it was.

Ya, I am going to leave that for the next owner. In all honesty, I imagine my house will eventually get bought by a developer and demolished for condos/apartments.

As you mentioned, supply and demand. For me it is about convenience. I don’t want to fight for a charging station or have to wait for a charge or have my travel route dictated by available charge stations. Hybrid for me is a good compromise. My friend has a hybrid CRV and loves it.

I like the idea of the F150 Power Boost. But its out of my price point.

 

[Halifax Tar]

EV mandates make good headlines, but terrible policy.

I expect they will all get walked back as the cold face of reality looms over the due dates.

 

[suffolkowner]

I expect they will all get walked back as the cold face of reality looms over the due dates.

honestly 2035 seems easy peasy but there are others before that.

• 2026: 20%
• 2027: 23%
• 2028: 34%
• 2029: 43%
• 2030: 60%
• 2031: 74%
• 2032: 83%
• 2033: 94%
• 2034: 97%
• 2035 and after: 100%

 

[Furniture]

honestly 2035 seems easy peasy but there are others before that.

• 2026: 20%
• 2027: 23%
• 2028: 34%
• 2029: 43%
• 2030: 60%
• 2031: 74%
• 2032: 83%
• 2033: 94%
• 2034: 97%
• 2035 and after: 100%

You expect that the entire auto industry will change course and produce only EV/PHEVs in just 10 years? Who is going to be buying those cars, understanding that the price starts at about $50K CAD.

Car Sales First Half 2025

Looking at the real numbers, the top sellers in all but he pick-up category cost below $50K on average. The RAV 4 and CR-V have trims above $50K, but most sold aren't those trims.

 

[suffolkowner]

You expect that the entire auto industry will change course and produce only EV/PHEVs in just 10 years? Who is going to be buying those cars, understanding that the price starts at about $50K CAD.

Car Sales First Half 2025

Looking at the real numbers, the top sellers in all but he pick-up category cost below $50K on average. The RAV 4 and CR-V have trims above $50K, but most sold aren't those trims.

Well its not the entire industry.

I expect that carney will at least walk back the schedule

 

[Halifax Tar]

Well its not the entire industry.

I expect that carney will at least walk back the schedule

The problem isn't the EVs themselves its the mandate.

People don't want to be told what they have to buy, and people like options. It's really what has polarized this whole issue, IMHO.

If we could have just let the auto sector produce them as an option and let them mature into something that could rival/beat an ICE vehicle in all aspects this would all be for not; and organically EVs would replace ICE vehicles. But no, we have to use a hammer.

 

[lenaitch]

I think like everything else, it depends on outside influences.

California has a mandate of 100 percent EV sales by 2035. That's a population and economy much larger than Canada.

Many EU countries, like UK (2035), France(2040), Germany (2035) have EV mandates. If most of the world switches to EVs, companies are not going to continue supplying Canada with ICE vehicles because we just are not that big a market.

That said, the foolish part was thinking that we could be the leading edge of this. The global vehicle market needs to force the change and we will be dragged along whether we like it or not. But if big markets like Europe and the USA don't make that change, we cannot force it on our own.

So might as well get ride of the mandate, or push it back to 2040-2045 when we know what the global trend will be, at which point it will largely be moot.

California is significant to compared to the Canadian market for sure, but less so compared to the rest of the US. In terms of sales, Florida and Texas aren't far behind; and they might be considered a tad 'less progressive'. According to this website, California sold roughly 1.75Mn vehicles, but that out of a total of almost 16Mn total US sales in 2024.

It will be interesting to see how the various European mandates and targets stand. The European market and manufacturing are much less integrated into the NA market.

I have 100A service at my house. I would honestly not be comfortable attaching a charging station and I am not interested in the added cost of upgrading my panel.

I hear what you are saying but if I was hell-bent on owning an EV (which I am not), I wouldn't be concerned with a 100A service. Between the newer generation of load-sensing EVSEs and the fact that most charging is done at night, it likely wouldn't be an issue.

Ford Lightning. Spendy.