Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???

[Brad Sallows]

To hear the people howling about this, one wonders how the 401 or Seaway could ever have been built today.

Maybe they couldn't. Decades worth of administrative and regulatory creep and Baumol's Cost Disease.

 

[YZT580]

Driving, maybe not a lot, but probably more than we'd think. I've driven to and from Toronto area to Ottawa and Montreal a few times. My brother travels at least regularly between the area and Montreal, he currently flies. I think replacing flights and existing rail service is where you'll see a big uptake in passengers. A convenient and fast service can potentially attract more usage.

Some quick googling shows about 3k passengers flying between Toronto and Montreal daily. Another 3-4k passengers travel via train.

I like the idea of the HSR line, and I'd like more and better transit projects in Canada in general, I have very little faith in our ability to successfully execute such a project in a timely affordable manner. If the project ended up taking 25 years and costing $200+ billion to run only a handful of trains I wouldn't even be surprised.

as one who has taken VIA numerous times in the past, I found that the 5 hours between Toronto and Ottawa wasn't much different from flying and the cost for a business seat with all its conveniences was the same as a last minute ticket on Air Canada. Where the train loses is in scheduling. There aren't enough of them and spending an extra 15 minutes in, for instance, Kingston because of a 100 unit freight train having priority can screw up your plans royally at the other end. Construct a passenger-dedicated track following either the current 401 corridor or the old Peterborough line that will accept 100 mph travel. That will produce a maximum 4 hour trip stopping every 40 miles on either or you could build both for half the price of the fancy hardware needed for HSR. Those trains don't come cheap and maintenance is high.And yes I read comments above re: the 401. CP owns the tracks from Toronto through to Havelock so that won't come cheap. Perhaps looking just a few miles north of the 401 on a parallel routing would serve. As I recall, housing basically ends within a mile or two no matter what side road you follow.

 

[lenaitch]

as one who has taken VIA numerous times in the past, I found that the 5 hours between Toronto and Ottawa wasn't much different from flying and the cost for a business seat with all its conveniences was the same as a last minute ticket on Air Canada. Where the train loses is in scheduling. There aren't enough of them and spending an extra 15 minutes in, for instance, Kingston because of a 100 unit freight train having priority can screw up your plans royally at the other end. Construct a passenger-dedicated track following either the current 401 corridor or the old Peterborough line that will accept 100 mph travel. That will produce a maximum 4 hour trip stopping every 40 miles on either or you could build both for half the price of the fancy hardware needed for HSR. Those trains don't come cheap and maintenance is high.And yes I read comments above re: the 401. CP owns the tracks from Toronto through to Havelock so that won't come cheap. Perhaps looking just a few miles north of the 401 on a parallel routing would serve. As I recall, housing basically ends within a mile or two no matter what side road you follow.

No engineer but I have read that a double track rail corridor requires about 200' for tracks, separation, access, drainage, etc. There are a lot of variables, grade being one. I can think of a couple, like around Cobourg, that would be too steep for rail. I highly doubt there is 200 extra feet in the 401 corridor and it would require the rebuilding of every interchange.

The goal of high-speed passenger rail is not to compete with the car but with aircraft. City centre to city centre, travel to/from the airports, eliminate the need to show up hours before, etc. France has decreed the elimination of short haul flights between cities served by high-speed rail.

 

[HavokFour]

More movement on that Canola/EV deal.

Someone can finally show them how to make a decent vehicle.

Stellantis in Talks to Make Chinese EVs at Idled Canadian Plant​

Archive

 

[MilEME09]

The goal of high-speed passenger rail is not to compete with the car but with aircraft. City centre to city centre, travel to/from the airports, eliminate the need to show up hours before, etc. France has decreed the elimination of short haul flights between cities served by high-speed rail.

exactly this, short haul flights dont really exist in europe because of HSR, no need to show up 2h before, its about 1/3 the cost for a ticket. For your average person its most economical. People wanting a summer vacation in Montreal can afford a round trip on HSR for the price of one way with air canada.

 

[ArmyRick]

HSR is simply not a priority

 

[daftandbarmy]

HSR is simply not a priority

Or any railways...we're in a huge mess trade transportation-wise across the country.

The fact that they're pumping the (money losing) high speed passenger route over the need for a more efficient (money making) trade infrastructure says alot about the current government's priorities i.e., get re-elected so suck up to Central Canada where all the voters are ...

Challenges in Canadian trade infrastructure​

• Lack of investment: Canada invests less in infrastructure than many Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) peers. In 2018 (latest year available), Canada invested 0.6% of its gross domestic product (GDP) on infrastructure, compared to an average of 0.72% in France, Germany, Italy and Japan. Over the past four decades, the ratio of Canadian infrastructure investment to trade volumes has declined. Transport Canada estimates that $4.4 trillion in trade-enabling infrastructure investments will be needed by 2070. Canada’s infrastructure deficit is estimated between $110 billion and $270 billion.
• Structural and regulatory challenges: Productivity growth in the Canadian transportation sector has plateaued since 2010, with declining logistics performance and aging infrastructure. Regulatory complexity and fragmented governance add inefficiencies and discourage private sector participation.
• Consolidation of key players: Limited competition and slow regulatory processes have led to consolidation among major operators, including the Canadian National Railway (CN) and Canadian Pacific Kansas City (CPKC).
• Supply chain bottlenecks: Congestion and poor maintenance in key export regions disrupt the movement of goods by air, rail, marine and roads.

https://www.edc.ca/en/article/trade-enabling-infrastructure-gaps.html