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Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???

That's because there is an existing supply chain there. We are talking about developing a new supply chain as a matter of national security and developing our nation's economic potential. You are of course right, all of that would need to be developed.

In classic Canadian fashion though, nobody wants to spend the $$$ or put the time and effort in.

And the elephants in the room are BC and Quebec, who are both 'anti-everything' these days and also happen to be our cheapest routes to tidewater and international markets for various natural resource products...

Sigh... if it wasn't for Lac Megantic ;)
 
And the elephants in the room are BC and Quebec, who are both 'anti-everything' these days and also happen to be our cheapest routes to tidewater and international markets for various natural resource products...

Sigh... if it wasn't for Lac Megantic ;)
It's almost as if there is a regional imperative to keep everyone else down 😉

Imagine if Canada had to build something like the Panama Canal? We would still be arguing a 100+ years later about the costs 🤣

That is par for the course I guess, it only took them a century to build a 10 mile 2 lane Bridge to PEI, which was a promise made to them at Confederation.
 
If we want to even have a CFS, I think the case will be made the government should build a SMR in the city, expand the port to include coast guard facilities to co-own with the RCN to accommodate a future heavy ice breaker. Twin the rail line, and begin construction of an all weather road to connect to the rest of Canada. Set up warehouses for supplies to be staged etc
 
If we want to even have a CFS, I think the case will be made the government should build a SMR in the city, expand the port to include coast guard facilities to co-own with the RCN to accommodate a future heavy ice breaker. Twin the rail line, and begin construction of an all weather road to connect to the rest of Canada. Set up warehouses for supplies to be staged etc
No need for a twin-rail line. Simple sidings for meets will do. If you run your trains on a schedule, they won't be sitting for very long.
 
And the elephants in the room are BC and Quebec, who are both 'anti-everything' these days and also happen to be our cheapest routes to tidewater and international markets for various natural resource products...

Sigh... if it wasn't for Lac Megantic ;)

Vancouver and Montreal are the two largest ports in Canada and they ship everything they are sent. There is only one natural resource the provinces where they are located object to: Oil and Gas. and it is connected to GHG emission concerns of the environmental lobbies, not to concerns over port facilities.
 
That's because there is an existing supply chain there. We are talking about developing a new supply chain as a matter of national security and developing our nation's economic potential. You are of course right, all of that would need to be developed.

It's not quite like that.

We all know that, in terms of shipping cost, expressed in ton per kilometer, shipping (by sea) is the cheapest, followed by rail, then trucking, and finally, air cargo as most expensive.

So here is an example of the situation we are talking about: Hardware chain BMR (the one I work for :)) in Quebec has the contract to provide about 75% of construction materials needs for the Nunavik annual resupply. We get the orders in, and then we know the ships schedules (which one to where and when). We assemble the products at our Chambly store, from our various suppliers, most of which are in the greater Montreal area, but can be as far as Toronto and Chicoutimi, so that all can be packed and crated a few days before the ship's departure. We can accommodate changes to the orders up to 48 hours before departure. When the shipping time comes, our own truck deliver the crates to the port, in 40 to 45 minutes. They often encounter the trucks from Vicwest or Acier Picard delivering the steel construction beams and siding/roofing, both of which produce them at their facilities in Sorel - 1 hour 15 minutes from the port. Most of the other products needed for the resupply be they food or everyday items are in the same situation.

You couldn't do that from Churchill. A lot of that stuff would first have to find its way to Winnipeg (that part is not that hard - just a little more expensive because of the shipping cost by rail/truck over distance) and then sent by train to Churchill. That last part is not only extra cost, but creates a potential bottleneck (single track if something happens) and a need for much longer lead times than "48 hours before shipping" as the cut off time.

It can be done, and IMHO, should be done to the extent possible, but we should be aware that it not a panacea for cheaper resupply of the Arctic.
 
Just one point, Humphrey: You can't go that way for the Arctic Resupply route. The way you show can only go to Iklulik. The passage between that route and Baffin Island is unnavigable, so the Arctic resupply route still has to go around Baffin island. That is the reason why St John's is as good a support base for the Arctic as Churchill would be: there is no distance steamed advantage.

It's almost as if there is a regional imperative to keep everyone else down 😉

Imagine if Canada had to build something like the Panama Canal? We would still be arguing a 100+ years later about the costs 🤣

That is par for the course I guess, it only took them a century to build a 10 mile 2 lane Bridge to PEI, which was a promise made to them at Confederation.


1770048786757.jpeg
Fury and Hecla Strait is a narrow (from 2 to 20 km (1.2 to 12.4 mi) wide) Arctic seawater channel located in the Qikiqtaaluk Region of Nunavut, Canada.




A little bit of TNT goes a long way.

And no need for locks and pumps.
 
It's almost as if there is a regional imperative to keep everyone else down 😉

Imagine if Canada had to build something like the Panama Canal? We would still be arguing a 100+ years later about the costs 🤣

That is par for the course I guess, it only took them a century to build a 10 mile 2 lane Bridge to PEI, which was a promise made to them at Confederation.
It's not quite like that.

We all know that, in terms of shipping cost, expressed in ton per kilometer, shipping (by sea) is the cheapest, followed by rail, then trucking, and finally, air cargo as most expensive.

So here is an example of the situation we are talking about: Hardware chain BMR (the one I work for :)) in Quebec has the contract to provide about 75% of construction materials needs for the Nunavik annual resupply. We get the orders in, and then we know the ships schedules (which one to where and when). We assemble the products at our Chambly store, from our various suppliers, most of which are in the greater Montreal area, but can be as far as Toronto and Chicoutimi, so that all can be packed and crated a few days before the ship's departure. We can accommodate changes to the orders up to 48 hours before departure. When the shipping time comes, our own truck deliver the crates to the port, in 40 to 45 minutes. They often encounter the trucks from Vicwest or Acier Picard delivering the steel construction beams and siding/roofing, both of which produce them at their facilities in Sorel - 1 hour 15 minutes from the port. Most of the other products needed for the resupply be they food or everyday items are in the same situation.

You couldn't do that from Churchill. A lot of that stuff would first have to find its way to Winnipeg (that part is not that hard - just a little more expensive because of the shipping cost by rail/truck over distance) and then sent by train to Churchill. That last part is not only extra cost, but creates a potential bottleneck (single track if something happens) and a need for much longer lead times than "48 hours before shipping" as the cut off time.

It can be done, and IMHO, should be done to the extent possible, but we should be aware that it not a panacea for cheaper resupply of the Arctic.

This argument is as old as Radisson and Groseilliers. The whole reason for the Hudson Bay Company was to by-pass the Montreal cartel choke-point.

When Montreal succeeded in buying out the HBC in 1871 the Northwest Company won.

The Cree lost.
 
The arctic commitment (facilities) should be at higher latitudes than Churchill.

If the same final (seasonal) sea leg is shared by all routes, it doesn't make a lot of sense to go overland to Churchill and then by sea, rather than directly by sea from the St Lawrence.
 
The railway won biggest, I think ;)

You mean the Scots of The Golden Square Mile?


Northwest Company
Canadian National
Canadian Pacific
Grand Trunk
Bell Telephone
The Chartered Banks
The Insurance, Assurance and Trust industries
Allan Steamship Lines
Brewers, Butchers and Bakers

Check those original directors and see how many Scots names you find with Montreal addresses in that square mile.


The history of the North West Company is instructive


"The North West Company Inc. is a multinational Canadian grocery and retail company which operates stores in Canada's western provinces and northern territories; the US states of Alaska and Hawaii; and several other countries and US territories in Oceania and the Caribbean."


"The North West Company was a Canadian fur trading business headquartered in Montreal from 1779 to 1821. It competed with increasing success against the Hudson's Bay Company in the regions that later became Western Canada and Northwestern Ontario. With great wealth at stake, tensions between the companies increased to the point where several minor armed skirmishes broke out, and the two companies were forced by the British government to merge."

...

"There are historical references to a North West Company as early as 1770, including the Montreal-based traders Benjamin Frobisher, Isaac Todd, Alexander Henry the elder and others, but the standard histories trace the company to a 16-share organization formed in 1779, which included Todd, Simon McTavish and James McGill. Seeking to break the Hudson's Bay Company monopoly over the North American fur trade, in 1780, the organization was joined by Peter Pond and Alexander Ellice, with his brothers, (and, later, his sons, including Edward Ellice).

"In the winter of 1783–1784, the North West Company was officially created on a long-term basis, with its corporate offices on Vaudreuil Street in Montreal. It was led by businessmen Benjamin Frobisher, his brother, Joseph, and McTavish, along with investor-partners who included the Ellices, Robert Grant, Nicholas Montour, Patrick Small, William Holmes, and George McBeath."

...

My argument is that Montreal has a 384 year history of governing (in the sense of choking) trade and development in Canada to its own advantage. What started as a French Protestant rebellion against the French King's taxmen happily absorbed a bunch of Scots Protestants anxious to dodge the English King's taxmen. Now they are Canada's taxmen.
 
If we want to even have a CFS, I think the case will be made the government should build a SMR in the city, expand the port to include coast guard facilities to co-own with the RCN to accommodate a future heavy ice breaker. Twin the rail line, and begin construction of an all weather road to connect to the rest of Canada. Set up warehouses for supplies to be staged etc
I think that the case for an all weather road today is a strong one and regardless what decision is made on the RCN/CCG stationing assets there.
 
I think that the case for an all weather road today is a strong one and regardless what decision is made on the RCN/CCG stationing assets there.
An all-weather road would be a bloody slog. Unforgiving terrain up there. Mostly swamps and bogs.
 
An all-weather road would be a bloody slog. Unforgiving terrain up there. Mostly swamps and bogs.
Understood but is the terrain substantially different than what we just went through in putting a road from Inuvik to Tuk?
 
Just one point, Humphrey: You can't go that way for the Arctic Resupply route. The way you show can only go to Iklulik. The passage between that route and Baffin Island is unnavigable, so the Arctic resupply route still has to go around Baffin island. That is the reason why St John's is as good a support base for the Arctic as Churchill would be: there is no distance steamed advantage.

Technically navigable in the right conditions?
 
The polling on holding a referendum is interesting, it seems PQ gaining popularity has little to do with separatism and mostly just a dislike for the current state of other the parties in the province.

Yes: 29%
No: 62%
Undecided: 9%

The PQ might end up shooting themselves in the foot if they go any harder than they already are towards a referendum.

 
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