Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???

[Czech_pivo]

Pretty interesting to see the contrast between yesterday's launch and the culture of "no" on this topic. All from a country literally built and unified around a railroad.

I take inspiration from this:

It's unfortunate that a service that every other G7 country and increasingly even some developing countries have is considered too much of a luxury for Canadians. Bunch of whiners today who can only find reasons not to build something.

By the way, Alberta is leading a provincial study on HSR between Calgary, Edmonton and Banff that should be out any day now. Hopefully the next effort after this.

It seems to be a Rural vs Urban divide. As I pointed out earlier in this trail of posts,

What I take from the post is announcements V deliverables.

So once shovels are in the ground on HSR you'll be onside with the project, correct?

 

[PrairieFella]

What I take from the post is announcements V deliverables.

You want them to build a railroad in a month? This is moving pretty quick under this government. It was only officially sanctioned by the government after the election.

 

[ytz]

What I take from the post is announcements V deliverables.

I know people are just noticing this now. But this is more than just announcements. The consortium was awarded a design contract a year ago. One of the team members is SNCF who built the TGV in France. The reason that consultations have started (and why opposition is growing) is because expropriation starts this Fall. And they've said they'll start getting shovels in the ground in 2029 but some preparatory works next year. So people who haven't been tracking for years are suddenly finding out that this is kind of imminent.

 

[Halifax Tar]

So once shovels are in the ground on HSR you'll be onside with the project, correct?

You want them to build a railroad in a month? This is moving pretty quick under this government. It was only officially sanctioned by the government after the election.

Why do you think I'm opposed to this ? I don't have a dog in the fight, I suppose my tax dollars but meh.

As the BQ leader says, its been announced 3 times.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I know people are just noticing this now. But this is more than just announcements. The consortium was awarded a design contract a year ago. One of the team members is SNCF who built the TGV in France. The reason that consultations have started (and why opposition is growing) is because expropriation starts this Fall. And they've said they'll start getting shovels in the ground in 2029 but some preparatory works next year. So people who haven't been tracking for years are suddenly finding out that this is kind of imminent.

I'm really glad you're excited and I hope it all comes true, this time.

 

[ytz]

I'm really glad you're excited and I hope it all comes true, this time.

Cautiously frustrated is more accurate.

This kinda means I have to vote LPC till this thing is past the point of no return. Cause otherwise it's the party of "no" to everything but pipelines.

I'm not sure how the politics of this is so messed up. The craziest part in that polling above is that the Green Party is 1% lower on net support than the CPC.

 

[ytz]

It seems to be a Rural vs Urban divide.

Meh. That's only true in Eastern Ontario. I don't think random farmer in the Prairies cares that much. And polling above shows that. Every part of the country supports this. Even though they aren't close to Ontario. I think the general public is mostly ahead of the politicians on this. And just a reminder this poll was commissioned and paid for by a group opposed to the project:

https://www.altno.ca/_files/ugd/f1a60d_f91a3f0ada144cb981f03a0da603e347.pdf

Their new spin that 25% strongly supporting is weak. Despite that being higher than the total opposition. And despite overall support at 62%.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Cautiously frustrated is more accurate.

This kinda means I have to vote LPC till this thing is past the point of no return. Cause otherwise it's the party of "no" to everything but pipelines.

I'm not sure how the politics of this is so messed up. The craziest part in that polling above is that the Green Party is 1% lower on net support than the CPC.

Ya I dont understand the CPCs resistance to this.

IMHO becoming the party of "No" is not going to win any election. What the CPC need to do is hold the LPCs feet to the fire on deliverables.

If I were PP I would have said: "This is the third time your Gov has announced this since 2015. Exactly when will we see actual physical progress Mr. Prime minister ? Canadians deserve fast and reliable means of travel, not announcements".

 

[Czech_pivo]

Why do you think I'm opposed to this ? I don't have a dog in the fight, I suppose my tax dollars but meh.

As the BQ leader says, its been announced 3 times.

Fair point.

 

[lenaitch]

It seems to be a Rural vs Urban divide.

Writ large. A bunch of the proposed routing goes through Randy Hillier/landowner right country. Southern/lakeshores communities want it there but southern farmers do not. Go figure.

if you can get the time down to 4 hrs between Toronto and Ottawa you will beat Air Canada and Pearson travel times. 4 Hours doesn't require HSR. Fast, yes but 100 mph is within normal trackage standards so no new standards are required. Hell, they were up to close to 85 40 years ago on the Lakeshore run. If you were to twin the Lakeshore CP line so that one is dedicated passenger with train passage occuring at scheduled station stops you would eliminate most delays. Give CP a property tax break and you will quickly get them on side.

I think a lot of the degradation in timing was caused by both railways introducing longer trains.

This high-speed project grew out of a high-frequency proposal that looking very similar in design. I agree that it could largely be done on the current CN lakeshore alignment, but the proponents wanted to be completely divorced from being a tenant, among other reasons.

I'm not sure if the CP right-of-way is wide enough to be twinned west of Smith's Falls, or if it is suitable for even 100 mph. I don't know if the level of precision exists to allow two-way operations using one track. If there is any kind of frequency, one passenger/technical/crossing/ wildlife related incident and everything goes all to hell.

Property taxes are a municipal/provincial issue and I'm not sure company-specific tax treatments are legal or constitutionally defensible. Then there's the whole electrification issue which neither railroads are keen about.

 

[ytz]

Ya I dont understand the CPCs resistance to this.

Pretty obvious to me. They have no vision for the country beyond pipelines and tax cuts. At least this version of the CPC. Apparently PP learned nothing from the last election when the electorate saw him as a sell out.

Shoulder be noted to. O'Toole supported this project. And it's literally in their platform. But suddenly for politicking PP wants to run to front of a parade of his base.

Really not sure what this party offers the 80% of the country who lives in cities and suburbs anymore other a bill.

 

[ArmyRick]

A bunch of you are cheering for it for one reason only. You desperately want a win for Mark Carney, whos honeymoon is waning (trust me, it is).

Like Trudeau, pulling these grand announcements out is a used cars salesman trick.

We Have much higher priorities and where does the 90 Billion come exactly? WE CAN NOT keep burning through cash.

HSR is a slam dunk in the golden horseshoe

Is it really now? Because you say so? Can I assume you live in the prairies? Why are you telling southern Ontario what they want?

I have friends and family in that area and they are kind of nope or m'eh don't really care about it.

Its not something people in Ontario have on their knees begging the government for. Tax money is limited. Keep cheering on Liberals because you desperately want a win for them.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Pretty obvious to me. They have no vision for the country beyond pipelines and tax cuts.

I think they are falling to their knee jerk reactions anytime the Gov says something, they think they need to be on the opposite side.

Their platforms/policies are mostly in sync (LPC loves to lift other peoples ideas). So hold them accountable on the deliverables side. That would be my strategy.

"Great idea Mr. PM. When ?"

 

[ArmyRick]

Pretty obvious to me. They have no vision for the country beyond pipelines and tax cuts. At least this version of the CPC. Apparently PP learned nothing from the last election when the electorate saw him as a sell out.

90 Billion reasons to resist this

 

[ArmyRick]

I think they are falling to their knee jerk reactions anytime the Gov says something, they think they need to be on the opposite side.

Their platforms/policies are mostly in sync (LPC loves to lift other peoples ideas). So hold them accountable on the deliverables side. That would be my strategy.

"Great idea Mr. PM. When ?"

Lets cut the funding out of your pay raises to pay for this then. and we can gut the rest of the defence increases in funding.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Lets cut the funding out of your pay raises to pay for this then.

That's definitely a COA.

I am not sure how you having that response to the quote you used though.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I think they are falling to their knee jerk reactions anytime the Gov says something, they think they need to be on the opposite side.

Their platforms/policies are mostly in sync (LPC loves to lift other peoples ideas). So hold them accountable on the deliverables side. That would be my strategy.

"Great idea Mr. PM. When ?"

As I pointed out earlier - of the 7 ridings east of Toronto to Ottawa and then the riding east of Ottawa to the Quebec border, 6 of those 7 are held by Conservatives.

 

[ArmyRick]

That's definitely a COA.

I am not sure how you having that response to the quote you used though.

My actual point being is one, tax money is a very limited resource, spend ULTRA carefully and wisely (this ain't it) and two, if we must spend that money, there is better places to put it.

The HSR was not even on the discussion list last election or if it was, barely noticed, in other words, its not a priority.

 

[lenaitch]

Meh. That's only true in Eastern Ontario. I don't think random farmer in the Prairies cares that much.

That might change if a Calgary/Edmonton HSR gets beyond an idea. HSR corridors need to be pretty flat, straight and isolated. Start telling a farmer/rancher they have to drive x-more kilometers to get equipment onto a field that is now 'on the other side' and they might be equally unhappy.

 

[ArmyRick]

As I pointed out earlier - of the 7 ridings east of Toronto to Ottawa and then the riding east of Ottawa to the Quebec border, 6 of those 7 are held by Conservatives.

And the land expropriations that are to follow? Yeah, the constituents are already upset, alot of land needs to be expropriated even by Steve McKinnon's admission.