Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???

[ArmyRick]

Carney caught on camera praising Michael Ma at Liberal fundraiser

Carney caught on camera praising Michael Ma at Liberal fundraiser

Last week floor-crossing MP Michael Ma called China's forced labour camps "hearsay."

www.junonews.com

Real elbows up kind of guy.

I think the Michael Ma issue is what I would call a "slow burn", Carney is not feeling the effects of it YET. In time, especially with lots of other little failures or very weak performative promises, its gonna come to back to haunt him.

 

[Eaglelord17]

The well known elitist political power block in Canadian society centred around Ottawa?

Oh hell yeah, it's a thing ... probably before the whole 'Upper and Lower Canada' thing too...

Laurentian elite - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Particularly cemented in once the requirement for bilingualism became mandatory. 18% of the country gets to control all the upper jobs and many of the lower level government jobs.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Curious. How many here buy into the theory of "the Laurentian elite" and its alleged influence on Ottawa and thus Canada?

Any theory of some kind of elite group can just as easily be explained by spontaneous order (groups of people who respond to incentives in a way that looks coordinated). That still leaves room for a lot of common-or-garden collusion, such as nepotism and favour-swapping.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Saying something (again) doesn't make it true

More people report to non knowledge- work/laptop jobs within 10-15 minute by foot or transit of Union Station And 610 bay there are people in most Canadian towns/cities. Bank street/Tunney's not quite as massive but still huge. Quebec metro back to Toronto scale.

Sure. Are they really prospective inter-city HSR commuters?

Toronto to Montreal or Quebec city trips fit the white collar /leisure dichotomy.

Uh-huh.

But the peterborough to Toronto-Ottawa, Ottawa to Montreal, and trois riviere-Montreal sub legs create viable transit based commutes and have potential to merge labour markets

Here we are in the fuzzy middle. What kind of labour?

 

[Deleted member 175000]

Sure. Are they really prospective inter-city HSR commuters?

Yes. Many are already intra-city transit commuters, or inter-city ppv commuters. Those with decent GO options are all ready inter-city transit consumers.

 

[ArmyRick]

Any theory of some kind of elite group can just as easily be explained by spontaneous order (groups of people who respond to incentives in a way that looks coordinated). That still leaves room for a lot of common-or-garden collusion, such as nepotism and favour-swapping.

Think back to the former SNC-Lavalin basically asking for a favour from PM JT, and then setting off that whole affair (which i still insist was a slow burn for the LPC), would the head of then SNC-Lavalin been pert of the Laurentian Elite? Enough power to ask the Prime Minister for a pretty big ask favour. That is only one example.

What about Justin's good buddy, Stephen Bronfman? A very wealthy philanthropist (eek, good intentions the road to hell thing), environmentalist (be suspect of these types with loads of money) and very heavily involved with managing the LPC. Would he count as the Laurentian Elite?

There is probably a lot more examples. John Ibbitson (I don't agree with everything he writes) had a reason he was willing to go to print on this issue.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Enough power to ask the Prime Minister for a pretty big ask favour.

The power to lobby for corporate welfare covers pretty much all large corporations.

 

[ArmyRick]

The power to lobby for corporate welfare covers pretty much all large corporations.

I get that, but thats a ballsy ask (literally asking for the law to be f#cked), or did Trudeau owe someone some favours? That one incident blew up in the media, how many of these situations are going undetected?

Many corporations would know their limits.

Google searching "Laurentian Elite" shows many journalist discuss it from both sides of the aisle.

 

[YZT580]

I'm confident that given the tendency of big projects to massively overrun cost and schedule, capital costs will be much higher than forecast. I'm confident that given the political reluctance to set fares high enough to cover operating costs, the relevant authorities will be scrambling to find other sources of money, which includes dipping into other pots, which includes other components of transit controlled by an authority. I'm confident that the forecasted economic figures provided by boosters are based on the most optomistic assumptions they can justify, and that the results will be lesser.

A lot of money, not necessarily where it will produce the most utility, sunk into one risk.

and it is all borrowed

 

[Brad Sallows]

and it is all borrowed

Borrowing for actual nuts-and-bolts investment can make sense. Unfortunately it's on top of a lot of borrowing for consumption, and ... dollars are fungible. Also unfortunately, the cost of something properly includes the cost of financing. So whatever fraction of, say, a $90B HSR is publicly-funded, is costing that amount plus its proportionate share of debt servicing; and, for now federal government debt servicing appears to extend out forever...

 

[RangerRay]

Curious. How many here buy into the theory of "the Laurentian elite" and its alleged influence on Ottawa and thus Canada?

John Ibbitson: The Laurentian elite strikes back

Was this federal election the last gasp of the Laurentian elite?

thehub.ca

It’s definitely a thing. I’m sure I’ve railed about them more than a few times.

I’m not sure what it has to do with high-speed rail in a densely populated area of the country though.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I’m not sure what it has to do with high-speed rail in a densely populated area of the country though.

Connected people massaging a major project outcome to their advantage in ways that basically amount to corruption.

 

[YZT580]

Borrowing for actual nuts-and-bolts investment can make sense. Unfortunately it's on top of a lot of borrowing for consumption, and ... dollars are fungible. Also unfortunately, the cost of something properly includes the cost of financing. So whatever fraction of, say, a $90B HSR is publicly-funded, is costing that amount plus its proportionate share of debt servicing; and, for now federal government debt servicing appears to extend out forever...

Too true. Like a large number of people have found out since COVID, it is all very well to borrow money to purchase the toys that make like more enjoyable but it is a wise man who allows for the necessities when he does so. Our governments have borrowed frivolously for years now and haven't left a lot of wiggle room for essentials.

 

[ArmyRick]

Not a good for the Liberals. Expensing the crown for an expense your not using? Eeek

 

[MilEME09]

Posting this clip, upto 10 more MPs still considering crossing the floor to the liberals. This would give Carney a very comfortable majority

https://twitter.com/x/status/2040875588575969657

 

[HavokFour]

Posting this clip, upto 10 more MPs still considering crossing the floor to the liberals. This would give Carney a very comfortable majority

https://twitter.com/x/status/2040875588575969657

10 seems very exaggerated, but I guess we'll see.

I wonder what the hell is going on internally in the CPC. Could Pierre stance on the HSR really be that unpopular within the party? I can't really think of anything else that's happened recently that would even come close to causing such a shift.

 

[MilEME09]

10 seems very exaggerated, but I guess we'll see.

I wonder what the hell is going on internally in the CPC. Could Pierre stance on the HSR really be that unpopular within the party? I can't really think of anything else that's happened recently that would even come close to causing such a shift.

Might be? Time will tell, could his HSR stance which goes against their election platform be part of it? Also possible a few MPs would definitely have their ridings benefit from it

 

[brihard]

10 seems very exaggerated, but I guess we'll see.

I wonder what the hell is going on internally in the CPC. Could Pierre stance on the HSR really be that unpopular within the party? I can't really think of anything else that's happened recently that would even come close to causing such a shift.

The internal party inquisition about social media posts and interviews may not have been super popular?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I wonder what the hell is going on internally in the CPC.

Maybe the MP's just developed a conscience and want to join party that lets them speak up about how delightful China and their labour practices are.

 

[Halifax Tar]

10 seems very exaggerated, but I guess we'll see.

I wonder what the hell is going on internally in the CPC. Could Pierre stance on the HSR really be that unpopular within the party? I can't really think of anything else that's happened recently that would even come close to causing such a shift.

I highly doubt there are ten, or honestly any more from the CPC. I could see any of the non-wacky NDP'ers crossing though. After that leadership convention and vote. Anyone anywhere close to blue collar or middle is not welcome there anymore.

But if Iam wrong, one more from the CPC must spell the end for PP.

Maybe the MP's just developed a conscience and want to join party that lets them speak up about how delightful China and their labour practices are.

It's always good to get your quisling card early. That really displays your loyalty.