211RadOp
Sr. Member
- Reaction score
- 15
- Points
- 230
Liberal MP facing assault, harassment, break and enter charges
- Thread starter 211RadOp
- Start date
Very good chance I'll catch some flame for the following story, and perhaps rightfully so.
But, here goes...
A few years ago, we actually had a local MP charged with something similar (by local MP, I'm just trying to clarify it wasn't a Military Police member)
Harassment, uttering threats, break and enter, etc etc. Extremely arrogant fool, for me to put it nicely. And you could see it in his eyes, he had an element of crazy in him, which he was obviously able to hide well & 'turn on the charm' when he needed to.
He was arrested, and the LEO and myself were in the interview room with him. However, because he was an MP, we actually decided to do his interview in one of the interview rooms not connected to the cells - much nicer, larger, and less 'cell like'. Shook hands, offered water, said because of his status in the community it would be 'better to chat up here' instead, etc etc. Did the whole pony show.
About halfway through the interview, when it became clear that we already knew the answers to our questions, and already had enough evidence to know what he had been up to, his entire personality changed. He went from charming and 'I'll do anything to help clear things up" to bullish and threatening.
Near the end of the interview, not realizing he was actually in an interview room being recorded, he actually just straight up started to threaten the LEO and myself. Started going on & on about who he was, how he knew all the right people, how him and the Chief sometimes have lunch, and how he isn't going to have his career ruined by some "loudmouth b*tch", etc. Literally threatened both of us with our careers, and quote said "Those aren't the only types of people I know." **Not kidding**
Turns out, he's one of those absolute psychos who isn't used to things not going his way. I genuinely feel terrible for any poor lass who has or does date him
(Incase anybody is wondering, he was a recently elected MP from lower mainland BC at the time - who was arrested in Alberta on complains made by an ex-girlfriend who resided in Alberta. Can't drop a name.)
Anyways, eventually my inner instincts took over despite my best attempts to keep my mouth shut. That, and the fact that I knew my bosses at SOLGEN would just get a laugh out of it.
I bluntly asked him..."I realize you think you're pretty important. Do you think your ego is going to protect you from getting your face smashed in right now?"
He stopped. Again, thinking he's in an unrecorded room, alone with 2 guys with badges.
"You think all this tough talk is going to save you from me ripping you out of that chair and borderline ripping your limbs off? Are you honestly too stupid to realize your locked in a room, alone, with us? You think we brought you up here where there aren't any cameras just because you think we like you? Better hope these friends of yours can teleport, because if not, they don't do you any good right now, do they? Go to the press with this, and we'll happily make sure some of the highlights get known, disclosure & all.
You turn your brain yet today?" etc etc
Turns out, he calms right back down. Admits to basically everything we already knew. He just forgot that we weren't some poor girl locked in a room in a room with him, but the power dynamic was the opposite of what he was used to.
Forwarded the charges to the crown. The crown's office negotiated something with him and his counsel, and it got pretty hush hush after that. Even the crown who first had the file didn't know the exact details of what was negotiated, as it been negotiated with the Chief crown of that office. Seems like it got brushed under the carpet & went away, sadly enough.
**Point of the story is -- you'd think the last folks who need to be involved with criminal charges of that nature, are well paid members of parliament. I think the power, the ego, the perception (correctly or not) of being a different class of citizen, can absolutely go to someone's head, especially younger ones.**
(I realize that could have gone badly for me. Given the situation, the LEO I was with, the bosses I had at SOLGEN at the time, and the nature of the charges, I wasn't too concerned at the time. In hindsight, I realize that could have gone south for me.)
But, here goes...
A few years ago, we actually had a local MP charged with something similar (by local MP, I'm just trying to clarify it wasn't a Military Police member)
Harassment, uttering threats, break and enter, etc etc. Extremely arrogant fool, for me to put it nicely. And you could see it in his eyes, he had an element of crazy in him, which he was obviously able to hide well & 'turn on the charm' when he needed to.He was arrested, and the LEO and myself were in the interview room with him. However, because he was an MP, we actually decided to do his interview in one of the interview rooms not connected to the cells - much nicer, larger, and less 'cell like'. Shook hands, offered water, said because of his status in the community it would be 'better to chat up here' instead, etc etc. Did the whole pony show.
About halfway through the interview, when it became clear that we already knew the answers to our questions, and already had enough evidence to know what he had been up to, his entire personality changed. He went from charming and 'I'll do anything to help clear things up" to bullish and threatening.
Near the end of the interview, not realizing he was actually in an interview room being recorded, he actually just straight up started to threaten the LEO and myself. Started going on & on about who he was, how he knew all the right people, how him and the Chief sometimes have lunch, and how he isn't going to have his career ruined by some "loudmouth b*tch", etc. Literally threatened both of us with our careers, and quote said "Those aren't the only types of people I know." **Not kidding**
Turns out, he's one of those absolute psychos who isn't used to things not going his way. I genuinely feel terrible for any poor lass who has or does date him
(Incase anybody is wondering, he was a recently elected MP from lower mainland BC at the time - who was arrested in Alberta on complains made by an ex-girlfriend who resided in Alberta. Can't drop a name.)
Anyways, eventually my inner instincts took over despite my best attempts to keep my mouth shut. That, and the fact that I knew my bosses at SOLGEN would just get a laugh out of it.
I bluntly asked him..."I realize you think you're pretty important. Do you think your ego is going to protect you from getting your face smashed in right now?"
He stopped. Again, thinking he's in an unrecorded room, alone with 2 guys with badges.
"You think all this tough talk is going to save you from me ripping you out of that chair and borderline ripping your limbs off? Are you honestly too stupid to realize your locked in a room, alone, with us? You think we brought you up here where there aren't any cameras just because you think we like you? Better hope these friends of yours can teleport, because if not, they don't do you any good right now, do they? Go to the press with this, and we'll happily make sure some of the highlights get known, disclosure & all.
You turn your brain yet today?" etc etc
Turns out, he calms right back down. Admits to basically everything we already knew. He just forgot that we weren't some poor girl locked in a room in a room with him, but the power dynamic was the opposite of what he was used to.
Forwarded the charges to the crown. The crown's office negotiated something with him and his counsel, and it got pretty hush hush after that. Even the crown who first had the file didn't know the exact details of what was negotiated, as it been negotiated with the Chief crown of that office. Seems like it got brushed under the carpet & went away, sadly enough.
**Point of the story is -- you'd think the last folks who need to be involved with criminal charges of that nature, are well paid members of parliament. I think the power, the ego, the perception (correctly or not) of being a different class of citizen, can absolutely go to someone's head, especially younger ones.**
(I realize that could have gone badly for me. Given the situation, the LEO I was with, the bosses I had at SOLGEN at the time, and the nature of the charges, I wasn't too concerned at the time. In hindsight, I realize that could have gone south for me.)
- Reaction score
- 85
- Points
- 580
From my perspective as a criminal defence lawyer, the stuff I've highlighted in yellow likely played a large part in "[t]he crown's office [negotiating] something". Threatening an arrested person with bodily harm like that is pretty much automatic exclusion of his statement from evidence and a potential judicial stay of proceedings as a result of police misconduct.
If the complainant was hesitant or the MP in question had alibis, the loss of that interview statement could have been pivotal to the Crown's "reasonable prospect of conviction".
In 16 years as a lawyer I've never actually seen a police officer threaten anyone in an interview video, nor have I seen them pretend that the recorded room isn't recorded. If I ever came across that I'd know I had the closest thing to a slam dunk on my hands. I've had statements excluded over police honestly forgetting to turn off the video and recording an accused's conversation with counsel, and that far far milder than what you say you did to this person.
So, it could have gone badly for you, but it seems likely to me that you handed that guy his good deal more than any political clout he may have had. So from a certain perspective it did go south.
I agree with you actually.
As I've gotten older and matured, my mindset has definitely changed. Mentally and spiritually, I have definitely outgrown and learned to control certain 'triggers' of mine. I tend to be a pretty max relax person all the time, and the only thing that really gets under my skin is when people are intentionally rude or arrogant towards others. Condescending people just grind my gears.
I think at the time, a lot of us were also very frustrated with 'small town policing' and the 'elite social circle' that the accused had, which included a certain judge. That was one of the reasons I transferred out, and do what I do now.
All in all, I agree with you 100%. Protecting people who can't protect themselves has always been my primary mindset, and in that particular case I was (perhaps with my youthful foolishness) more focused on the physical ability to prevent him from continuing his physical/sexual attacks on the victim. As I've grown, I absolutely agree - there was a more refined approach which could have had much longer term results.
- Reaction score
- 85
- Points
- 580
I completely understand and if I were in that room with the guy, can't say I wouldn't have felt exactly the same way and wanted to do the same. I am frequently impressed at the massive amounts of self restraint that LE generally display in such situations.
... doesn't mean I won't use it for my client's benefit though if they don't, though
... doesn't mean I won't use it for my client's benefit though if they don't, though
I've learned to appreciate good lawyers, truly
Throughout my career on the LE side of things, I've seen the system operate in ways I never thought it possibly could. I've seen accused with rap-sheets a mile long continue to offend, again & again, that have never stepped foot inside a prison. (Fines, community service, alternatives measures, probation, etc etc.)
And I've seen really good folks who just got tangled up in a weird situation end up doing prison time, when they aren't remotely a threat to society.
I think I've managed to build some pretty solid relationships and friendships with some of the defense lawyers that I frequently interact with. And I've really learned to appreciate the service a good lawyer can provide, given the really odd outcomes I've seen in court at times.
Throughout my career on the LE side of things, I've seen the system operate in ways I never thought it possibly could. I've seen accused with rap-sheets a mile long continue to offend, again & again, that have never stepped foot inside a prison. (Fines, community service, alternatives measures, probation, etc etc.)
And I've seen really good folks who just got tangled up in a weird situation end up doing prison time, when they aren't remotely a threat to society.
I think I've managed to build some pretty solid relationships and friendships with some of the defense lawyers that I frequently interact with. And I've really learned to appreciate the service a good lawyer can provide, given the really odd outcomes I've seen in court at times.
FJAG
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 13,120
- Points
- 1,160
I've learned to appreciate good lawyers, truly
Throughout my career on the LE side of things, I've seen the system operate in ways I never thought it possibly could. I've seen accused with rap-sheets a mile long continue to offend, again & again, that have never stepped foot inside a prison. (Fines, community service, alternatives measures, probation, etc etc.)
And I've seen really good folks who just got tangled up in a weird situation end up doing prison time, when they aren't remotely a threat to society.
I think I've managed to build some pretty solid relationships and friendships with some of the defense lawyers that I frequently interact with. And I've really learned to appreciate the service a good lawyer can provide, given the really odd outcomes I've seen in court at times.
During the later part of law school in Manitoba you go through the interview processes for articling positions after graduation with law firms. At the time I had already concluded that I'd be a court oriented barrister and not an office bound solicitor and was very seriously looking at a career practicing criminal defence law to the extent that I set up interviews with a dozen criminal law practices but only one with a civil litigation department of a larger firm.
During the interviews I formed the very strong impression that if one practiced criminal law the one would either: a) need to develop a "lone white knight fighting the system on behalf of the poor broken client" mentality early on in life in order to be good; or b) be prepared to become jaded or burn out. I received ten offers for criminal law articles and the one for civil litigation. I found that I simply didn't have it in me to build up a sufficient sense of moral outrage against the "system" and took the civil litigation position. Never regretted my choice. Once I joined the legal branch I was involved in a number of courts martial but prosecuted more than I defended.
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