Liberals furious over Harper's Taliban remarks

[ArmyRick]

mz589, where in the [removed attempt to get around filter] did that remark come from? Please do explain and maybe take note of the general anti-liberal feeling on this forum (Mostly due to 12 years of nothing useful for anybody).

Waiting, lets hear it?

 

[smitty66]

..."It's a disgrace.  The answer of the prime minister today is a disgrace.  To ask us to make a choice between the Taliban detainees and our troops -- I think it's infamous," fumed Liberal MP and defence critic Denis Coderre.....

And this guy is the Defence Critic???  :rage: Hope we never have the misfortune of seeing him as MND....We'd be issuing new kit and rations to the Taliban. After the standard 15 year Liberal purchasing process of course.  ;D

 

[Colin Parkinson]

And this guy is the Defence Critic???  :rage: Hope we never have the misfortune of seeing him as MND....We'd be issuing new kit and rations to the Taliban. After the standard 15 year Liberal purchasing process of course.  ;D

Hey there is a way to defeat the Taliban, just let the Liberals run them..... ;D

 

[Flip]

"..."It's a disgrace.  The answer of the prime minister today is a disgrace.  To ask us to make a choice between the Taliban detainees and our troops -- I think it's infamous," fumed Liberal MP and defence critic Denis Coderre....."



I feel a letter to the Globe and Mail coming on..................
Something to the effect of "Why shouldn't the prime minister ask you to choose?
It's about time someone did."

I think Coderre's sympathy for Canada's enemies needs some scrutiny.
Is it just "human rights"? If so, fine

If not.............

DISCLAIMER: I have never been related to a Sen. McCarthy, never met him etc... ;D

 

[cplcaldwell]

'You have no idea how difficult it is to set priorities'

M Dion's obvious intelligence is wanting for some leadership skills methinks.

Sadly the Liberals have chosen to make a political issue out of this and left themselves wide open to the PM's well justified 'zinger'.

The Liberals have abandoned the high ground of 'support our troops' for 'let's see if we can make the PM's face turn red'.

Once again Stephen Harper was underestimated.

What's lost in all this was a comment made by Dawn Black the other day1. She noted to the affect that if we had lost track of these individuals it did mean that they could have been tortured, but more importantly, if they had been lost track of, what was to say that they were not now planting IED's somewhere in Kandahar province.

Perhaps if the press, the Liberal and the rest of the rabble had any sense they would see that part of this issue is ensuring that the nascent, but still corrupt Afghan infrastructure is integral to our goals.

But perhaps it's too much to expect decent thoughtful opposition from the Liberals. After all why bother when crass retail politicking will suffice?



1 - Yes, I know I just attributed common sense to a dipper, but hey work with on this one, I won' make a habit out of it.

 

[FastEddy]

OOOOhhh say can you see?
By the dawn's early light....

Mimicking the Republican party is the quickest way to find yourself out office there Steve.

I'm not quite sure, how or what you mean with the above statement. Is it a U.S. Bashing, A Antiwar Statement, Objection to our Afghanistan Commitment.

And by the way, its Prime Minister Stephen Harper to you. P.S, the PC's are not going any where soon, and this from a Lifetime Liberal (only up to the recent Election).

 

[1feral1]

+1 for Harper. Good on him!

The Liberals are not a national embarassment, they are an international embarrassment. So remember that.

Shame on them all.

The whole world is watching!


Cheers,

Wes

 

[Gimpy]

I realize 100% that the strong majority of this forum is Conservative, but I am not and I feel a need to protect my party. People here think that the Liberals actually support the Taliban and to honestly think that is absolutely absurd, there is no proof of those claims and it is in no way true.

As for the claim of no support for the CF that's also absurd and there is no proof of such. If you look back at the beginning of the war in Afghanistan the Liberals were the ones responsible for sending the troops over in the first place, so to think they don't care about the troops while actively sending them over is also ridiculous. As for the feeling about the mission I think that the Liberals/NDP make a good point. This mission has no clear objectives, you can't finish a mission that doesn't state clear objectives. Along with Iraq (which is worse than Afghanistan) these wars will not be finished for 20+ years unless they pull out soon. Its like Vietnam, its impossible to win a Guerrilla War unless you resort to authoritarian measures (which won't happen).

mz589, where in the h*ll did that remark come from? Please do explain and maybe take note of the general anti-liberal feeling on this forum (Mostly due to 12 years of nothing useful for anybody).

Waiting, lets hear it?

Please explain what the 9 years previous to that of Mulroney's government did.

As for what the Liberal government did during those years: A $42 billion deficit was eliminated, 5 budget surpluses in a row, $36 billion in debt payed off, $100 billion in taxes cut over 5 years (largest tax cut in Canadian history), and also comically enough regarding the current situation, more funding for the CF. So while not perfect it was certainly better than the previous conservative government which might explain why it was elected 4 times in a row.

Hopefully none of this is construed as a personal attack on anyone here for their beliefs, I just would like to clear up misconceptions and show that the Liberal party aren't the people they are made up to be here. Also, just to add a little bit of conservative-ish support, the MP of my riding whom I voted for is arguably the most conservative liberal MP. I'll let you guess who that is because it shouldn't be too difficult.

 

[GAP]

I realize 100% that the strong majority of this forum is Conservative, but I am not and I feel a need to protect my party. People here think that the Liberals actually support the Taliban and to honestly think that is absolutely absurd, there is no proof of those claims and it is in no way true.

Let's see,, early 90's recession....massive cuts in Federal Spending in 93 & 95, then about 96-97 the economy took off. Between the lack of responsibility to the provinces, (they made all those massive cuts and downloaded everything to the provinces....remember) and a dramatic increase in revenues because of the economy and the new taxes they had imposed, the Liberals ran surplus budgets......ahhhh....I remember it well, as does everybody on this board.

The Liberals went to Afghanistan.....and you didn't hear the Conservatives tell them not to, did you.

Now the Conservatives want to extend Afghanistan and the Liberals are crying out that they don't understand why....must be the Alzheimer's. They can't have it both ways. If the CF were OK to go in 2001 for the Liberals, then the Liberals need the gonads to back them even when they are in opposition.....it should not be a political issue, it should be a Canadian Issue.

 

[Gimpy]

Let's see,, early 90's recession....massive cuts in Federal Spending in 93 & 95, then about 96-97 the economy took off. Between the lack of responsibility to the provinces, (they made all those massive cuts and downloaded everything to the provinces....remember) and a dramatic increase in revenues because of the economy and the new taxes they had imposed, the Liberals ran surplus budgets......ahhhh....I remember it well, as does everybody on this board.

The Liberals went to Afghanistan.....and you didn't hear the Conservatives tell them not to, did you.

Now the Conservatives want to extend Afghanistan and the Liberals are crying out that they don't understand why....must be the Alzheimer's. They can't have it both ways. If the CF were OK to go in 2001 for the Liberals, then the Liberals need the gonads to back them even when they are in opposition.....it should not be a political issue, it should be a Canadian Issue.

Let's see, largely inexperienced ministers, increased debt, introduction of GST, and don't even blame the early 90's recession of the Liberals because A) It was worldwide and B) It occured while Mulroney was PM, and of all people CF members should remember how much a let down Mulroney was with such promises such as increasing personnel and budget but both fell during his reign.

I would think that the Liberals were a step in the right direction after the Conservatives first run at power in 26 years turned out not so well. But don't get me wrong I'm not necessarily against Harper or the Conservatives and quite frankly I have no objections to them being in office. But I do have objections to the negative feelings about Liberals in general because of remarks made specifically about military. To futher clarify, no I don't always agree with what they say, but people here judge them as terrible because they say dumb things about the military at times, but no political party is perfect and they will always be sticking their feet in their respective mouths, even Conservatives.

 

[GAP]

agreed. Mulroney years were both different and disappointing in our expectations of them. Could have and should have done better, but the mindset then makes me shudder when I remember it.

All political parties will experience "hoof and mouth disease", so far the Harper Conservatives have gotten away with it, simply because they are a change from the Liberals. People's expectations are not as high, and they are getting some breaks, but they had better govern properly if and when they get a Majority. The social activism that is going on now, is simply vote getting, and that I can live with, but this country needs a "leader", not a "caterer"

 

[Gimpy]

agreed. Mulroney years were both different and disappointing in our expectations of them. Could have and should have done better, but the mindset then makes me shudder when I remember it.

All political parties will experience "hoof and mouth disease", so far the Harper Conservatives have gotten away with it, simply because they are a change from the Liberals. People's expectations are not as high, and they are getting some breaks, but they had better govern properly if and when they get a Majority. The social activism that is going on now, is simply vote getting, and that I can live with, but this country needs a "leader", not a "caterer"

I just feel that the Conservatives will stay in power for another 2+ terms but then at that point its going to be exactly like it was with the Liberals this past election and people will be clamoring for a change, but thats how politics goes and thats how it most likely will always go.

 

[GAP]

Yeah, all parties tend to self destruct after a couple of terms....

 

[WogCpl]

Gimpy, I don't understand why you are comparing Mulroney and his Progressive conservatives to Harper and his Conservative party, lets not forget that they are two different animals. As for the Liberal party, Closing of CFB Chilliwack and a few other bases, the "incentive freeze" from 1993 till 1997, and the disbandment of the Airborne are a few of the ways the liberals have "shown support" to the military.

 

[Edward Campbell]

I’ll be a little contrarian.

It was a cheap shot – but that’s fine in politics, cheap shots are the order of the day and, in Canada anyway, they pass for thoughtful discourse.  So, nothing wrong with a cheap shot – the Liberals ignored the real issues in detainee policies and politicized an arguable issue of policy, law and morality so they are getting what they deserve.

Prime Minister Harper is using the Canadian Forces and the men and women in it as a political prop.  Many Army.ca members were dismayed when Liberal Defence critic Denis Coderre did that (when he accused Gen Hillier of making himself into the political prop); those members should be equally dismayed that Prime Minister Harper has stooped down to the same level.

I think that too many people misunderstand how Prime Minister Harper sees the world and the CF’s role in it.  I think the PM has an overarching view of Canada in the world and I think it creates his view of the CF.  He believes, contrary to e.g. Allan Gotleib and Jennifer Welsh, that middle powers still exist and matter and that Canada can and should be a leaders amongst them.  The CF is one of the tools which Canada’s political leaders need to have and use to earn and maintain a significant global leadership position.  You may remember his remarks (about a year ago) re: casualties being the price we pay for leadership.  Some people were upset but I think that is the sort of position a PM ought to take.  Sailors, soldiers and aviators join  up to be used as tools – some get bent, broken and destroyed in the process of being used, that’s sad but it is part of the price which Canada needs to be prepared to pay to promote its vital interests in the world.  In sum, I think Harper’s support for the troops is very analogous to a master craftsman’s support for his tools – he cares for them, he keeps them in good condition but he has little emotional attachment to them, if one breaks he can always buy another.

One of the uses he has for the CF, this week, is as a political prop.

----------

P.S. I’m a card carrying member of the Conservative Party of Canada and a regular financial contributor to it, too.  That doesn’t make me blind to the flaws and faults in the party’s people and policies, nor does it make me think that the Liberal Party of Canada is all that much worse than us.

 

[GAP]

+1 Edward. People need to not lose sight of this little fact.

 

[RWA]

Gimpy, I don't understand why you are comparing Mulroney and his Progressive conservatives to Harper and his Conservative party, lets not forget that they are two different animals. As for the Liberal party, Closing of CFB Chilliwack and a few other bases, the "incentive freeze" from 1993 till 1997, and the disbandment of the Airborne are a few of the ways the liberals have "shown support" to the military.

And the cover up of the Canadian casualties in Bosnia, the purchase of new luxury passenger jets for Cabinet Ministers which was unnecessary and would have been better spent on actual military equipment and those "Soldiers in streets" ads and the fact they even exist is just offensive. In my opinion the Liberals are just getting what they deserve.

 

[ArmyRick]

My grand pappy once said "In Canada, we don't vote a party into power, we vote them out."

Interesting to note that alot of times a party will change not because the new one had a superb platform, its just that people were that sick of the old one.

In my case, I voted for Harper conservatives. They are a new and different breed from Mulroney's era.

 

[nowhere_man]

I just think that It's funny that Dion said on the news last night that Mr. Harper was being a bully, What a guy, if he stays around for a while I could see some sort of Liberal coup taking place, beacuse that guy isnt a leader.

 

[career_radio-checker]

"Soldiers in streets" ads and the fact they even exist is just offensive. In my opinion the Liberals are just getting what they deserve.

The Conservatives and Liberals do share the middle of the political spectrum, and it is good that they both exist. Ask me in two terms how much I like the Conservatives and I'll probably want some change. That's what keep democracies healthy.

Its not so much the Liberal party I dislike, but that incompetent, uncharismatic, leaderless Dion. Oh, and did I mention that he is another Liberal leader from Quebec? Must be one of the requirements to becoming the Liberal leader.