Liberals Want Injured to Keep Getting Danger Pay Back in Canada

[GAP]

yes. While it says that in this thread, under the media reports it kinda leaves the impression it will be simply be a continuation of pay/benefits.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Well then People must look closely at the article written in the Star;

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1160171411447&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

Hillier and O'Connor said the policy of discontinuing danger pay for wounded soldiers would remain, but they would get their extra compensation some other way.

dileas

tess

 

[George Wallace]

Hillier and O'Connor said the policy of discontinuing danger pay for wounded soldiers would remain, but they would get their extra compensation some other way.

That doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to 'create' a whole new allowance.  It may mean that they are going to start getting on the cases of DVA and SISIP to streamline their procedures and get their acts together.  It is these two organizations that are the target of all of our woes and discussion now.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Well then People must look closely at the article written in the Star;

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1160171411447&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154&t=TS_Home

dileas

tess

Wow that's amazing! Good on O'Conner and Hillier...I hope they don't delay this thing so that it becomes another frustration for those who apply for it. I think the Liberals are still a bunch of hippocrites for yelling about this when they themselves never moved to do anything about it under their watch. But hey it's working out for the troops so it's all good!! ;D

 

[the 48th regulator]

Bingo,

They will possibly be cracking down on those two Groups.

I can almost guarantee that there will be a sit down between the two ministers (Defence and Vetaran's) to discuss the organization that is responsible.

Time for the DVA to step up for the modern Veteran.

dileas

tess

 

[Gunner]

That doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to 'create' a whole new allowance.  It may mean that they are going to start getting on the cases of DVA and SISIP to streamline their procedures and get their acts together.  It is these two organizations that are the target of all of our woes and discussion now.

George, I wouldn't lump DVA and SISIP in the same category.  SISIP, from what I have heard, is very good about providing life insurance payment to the beneficiaries and providing lump sum payment for loss of limbs.  DVA is another matter.  Question - Does SISIP have another role to play for wounded soldiers? 

 

[George Wallace]

George, I wouldn't lump DVA and SISIP in the same category.  SISIP, from what I have heard, is very good about providing life insurance payment to the beneficiaries and providing lump sum payment for loss of limbs.  DVA is another matter.  Question - Does SISIP have another role to play for wounded soldiers? 

Yes SISIP has another role to play for wounded soldiers.  There is also 'Manpower', or whatever they call themselves these days, that can be tapped into.  If a soldier is injured and is fated to leave the CF, there are programs that are available through SISIP and Manpower for job training and the like.  In many instances, what we are discussing in this Topic is all due to pure ignorance of what is available to the injured soldier, insurance wise, pay wise, programs available, etc.  A Journalist has taken a sound bite and blown the whole situation up and many misconceptions are now floating around that the wounded have nothing.  That is not true.  There are programs, allowances, pensions and the like available.  There are organizations that deal with these matters; some better than others, and that is where the real focus should be centered.

 

[George Wallace]

Just another point on pensions, that I had mentioned before, and came back with this post in another thread:

Just saw O'Connor and Kenney on CTV Question Period.  O'Connor about the best I've seen him--pointing out his efforts in Slovenia to get NATO members (i.e. Germany, Italy, France and Spain) to get rid of caveats-- and Craig Oliver not too awful.  Kenney made a point--which the government should have been doing months ago--of emphasizing that ISAF is a UN Security Council mandated operation.  He's sharp; no wonder the PM gives him such exposure.

Mark
Ottawa

As this is a UN mandated operation, there are UN Pensions given to those injured on UN operations.  I remember having to fill out the forms in Bosnia.  Are these forms not being filled out for injuries occuring on these Ops?

 

[the 48th regulator]

I found out a decade afterwards George, regarding the UN pension.

With some investigating, I also found this link;

http://www.un.org/staff/panelofcounsel/appeals.htm#claims

dileas

tess

 

[Rifleman62]

Here is the CANFORGEN to change the Pension Act so that CF members can receive a VAC pension while still serving. The catch is that if you are claiming i.e. for an old injury, VAC invariably will say it did not bother you before, so why now?  I feel that VAC works on reverse onus, they feel you are guilty of defrauding the government until you can prove you are innocent (reversal of common law, where you are innocent until proven guilty). The likely reason this legislation was conceived was to replace VAC's client base that was literally dieing off - WW1, was gone, WW2 and Korea was going fast. VAC had to have a reason to keep that organization going. Someone should start a thread so we can see how claims are being handled now- the good and the bad. I do hear though, that in my location, the severely wounded are getting excellent service from VAC. It is not the VAC employees, it is the system that stinks.

UNCLASSIFIED
CANFORGEN 135/00 ADMHRMIL 079 301400Z NOV 00
REF: CANFORGEN 092/99 O21500Z NOV 99 ADM (HR-MIL)
1. ON 20 OCT 00, BILL C-41, AN ACT TO AMEND PENSION ACT, RECEIVED ROYAL ASSENT. THE AMENDMENTS, WHICH ARE EFFECTIVE 27 OCT 00, ENSURE IMPROVED BENEFITS TO MEMBERS OF THE CANADIAN FORCES (CF) WHO ARE INJURED IN THE LINE OF DUTY IN NON SPECIAL DUTY AREAS (SDA)
2. CF MEMBERS INJURED IN THE LINE OF DUTY IN A NON SDA MAY NOW COLLECT A DISABILITY PENSION FOR SERVICE-RELATED DISABILITIES WHILE THEY ARE STILL SERVING. PRIOR TO THIS LEGISLATION, THEY COULD BE AWARDED ENTITLEMENT TO A DISABILITY PENSION WHILE STILL SERVING, BUT COULD NOT HAVE THEIR DISABILITY ASSESSED AND RECEIVE PENSION PAYMENTS PRIOR TO THEIR RELEASE FROM SERVICE. PREVIOUSLY, SERVING CF MEMBERS COULD ONLY RECEIVE A VAC DISABILITY PENSION FOR A SERVICE-RELATED DISABILITY IF THAT DISABILITY AROSE OUT OF OR WAS DIRECTLY CONNECTED WITH SERVICE IN A SDA
3. IN ADDITION, CHANGES WILL BE MADE IN THE FUTURE TO THE VETERANS HEALTH CARE REGULATIONS. THESE CHANGES WILL GIVE MEMBERS ENTITLED TO A VAC DISABILITY PENSION FOR A SERVICE-RELATED INJURED INCURRED IN A NON-SDA, ACCESS TO THE VETERANS INDEPENDENCE PROGRAM FOR THEIR PENSIONED CONDITIONS AND BASED ON AN ASSESSED HEALTH NEED. THIS ENSURES EQUITY OF ACCESS TO SERVICES AND BENEFITS TO ALL CF MEMBERS INJURED IN THE LINE OF DUTY
4. MEMBERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO IMMEDIATELY APPLY SHOULD THEY HAVE A SERVICE RELATED DISABILITY. APPLICATION IS TO BE MADE THROUGH LOCAL VAC DISTRICT OFFICES OR THE ROYAL CANADIAN LEGION. STILL SERVING MEMBERS WHO ARE ALREADY ENTITLED TO A VAC DISABILITY PENSION UPON DISCHARGE FROM THE SERVICE WILL BEGIN RECEIVING THEIR PENSION BASED ON THE DATE THE AMENDED LEGISLATION CAME INTO EFFECT 27 OCT 00
5. MEMBERS MAY OBTAIN FURTHER INFORMATION BY DIRECTLY CONTACTING THE DND/VAC CENTRE FOR THE CARE OF INJURED AND RETIRED PERSONNEL AND THEIR FAMILIES AT 613-995-0972 OR 1-800-883-6094, WEB SITE QUOTE   WWW.DND.CA/HR/THECENTRE   UNQUOTE OR VIA EMAIL QUOTE CENTRE@DND.CA UNQUOTE. MORE INFORMATION IS ALSO AVAILABLE ON THE VAC WEBSITE AT   WWW.VAC-ACC.GC.CA   UNDER   CLIENT SECTION CF ACTIVITIES   OR THROUGH THE ROYAL CANADIAN LEGION WEBSITE AT   WWW.LEGION.CA .  MEMBERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE LEGION BY E-MAIL AT INFO@LEGION.CA
6. COMMANDERS AT ALL LEVELS ARE TO ENSURE THAT THE CONTENTS OF THIS MESSAGE ARE DISSEMINATED TO THE WIDEST EXTENT POSSIBLE

 

[the 48th regulator]

It is not the VAC employees, it is the system that stinks.

Both are too blame.  I have dealt with some of the best and some of the Worst people, within VAC.

The systed is completely broken, and therefore there is a horrible check and balance on their personel.

dileas

tess

 

[GUNNER2006]

After being on 5 tours and seeing many of my fellow soldiers retiring due to injuries, I think the whole system needs to be revamped. If you get more than 75% of your gross pay from a medical pension (ie number of years served)  and dva, you get nothing from sisip. Thats right nothing. You have paid into this sisip (manditory  long term disability). The policy holder is the cds.  Many of the dags i went through was in a drill hall with about 300 soldiers in line signing all the papers as fast as you can like a big rat wheel. Did they(sisip) explain all the details to each soldier on what they were covered for?  We keep hearing " you will be taken care of and the military takes care of its own."
They all know the compensation we are entiled to. Look at the dnd watch dog (ombudsmans report 26 oct 2005) to  >: dbill graham  reference this. Still the new veterans charter is the same .dva now use the 75% rule. The old sisip way. Soldiers should look into this problem as all the benifits are not what they appear. Anyone dealing with this problem with sisip and the dva?  Oh, part of your gross income also includes any funds your children get. 
Explain this one to your troops cds and mnd. This danger pay issue has opened a big can of worms on compensation of injured troops and the struggles they have to get ahead in life.  My advice to all soldiers is to ask questions about your ltd,sisip and dva so that you and your family is protected if you are injured.
I  all the troops fighting for the freedom of this counrty.to all support the troops


GUNNER 2006     

(Edited a bit to turn off yelling)

 

[the 48th regulator]

SISSIP  gives you nothing unless you reached total loss of function,

And then they refer you to the DVA.
That is the magical crux of it all.  We pay into them, like an insurance policy, and they know full well that they need not pay you, as VAC will cover everything else other than loss of limb.  This company is making tons off of the payments we make on tour....

Odd isn't it?


dileas

tess

 

[Rifleman62]

Just like Unemployment Insurance. Who will ever collect?

Can you collect CPP Disability Benefits as a result of being WIA?

 

[George Wallace]

Let's just say that Treasury Board has formula's for everthing so that you will never be able to get full payments from any Government policy.  The more you get from one policy, reduces the amount you will get from another.  SISIP has included Federal assistance in their formulas in calculating your benefits.

Even if you aren't injured, and achieve a Pension from the CF, when you come to the time that you can collect CPP, a formula is applied to average the two and give you what will appear to be slightly less that you were originally getting - no way to collect two full pensions.  But that is another story, buy still an example of how the Government will claw back money that you thought you may earned.  Fun eh?  You did start a SRRSP?

 

[Rifleman62]

SRRSP? Do you mean a self directed RRSP? Yes, I did, but it will not be enough ( currently low 6 figures ) to buy back all my time due to the wage measure and 7% compound interest. That is, if the Reserve Pension ever CIF.

I understand the claw back of CPP at age 65, if you have a CF Pension. You are aware of course, of Peter Stoffer's latest bill in Parliament that received first reading in the last sussion ( Bill C441 died when the election was called, and Stoffer tabled a new Bill after the election).

If we are paying into CPP why can not WIA receive CPP Disability Benefits?

 

[McG]

As this is a UN mandated operation, there are UN Pensions given to those injured on UN operations.

UN approval does not make a UN mission.  This is not a UN mission. 

The money has already been budgeted for the Troops, what harm is it to continue giving to them. 

There is now a replacement soldier getting that budgeted money, but that is irrelevant.  Balance sheets should not be the factor in this debate.

O’Connor said it’s possible soldiers could receive another form of compensation in lieu of danger pay. He couldn’t say how much such a measure would cost, nor whether it would be retroactive.

This is the way to go (and retroactive would be nice).

a.  Should soldiers wounded due to enemy action continue to receive Hardship, Risk and Foreign Service Premium?  No, of course not, they are no longer serving in the theatre of operations and there is no entitlement.  This is not additional pay, these benefits are to compensate you for the hardship of living in an operational theatre, the increased risk associated with the deployment and the generic FSP that all government employees receive.  Its purpose is not to compensate for physical or mental suffering from a wound.

Agree.

b.  Should a soldier receive financial compensation for being wounded in action?  I was originally against this but I am now sitting on the fence.  Someone mentioned that if a soldier is injured on the first day in theatre, they should receive the full 6 months of benefits (above) but if they are wounded on their last day in theatre, they only get an additional day.  This doesn't make sense at all.  You either get a lump sum for being wounded or you don't.  No middle ground that would provide for a graduated scale of financial compensation (you either get it or you don't).  The graduated scales are the purview of SISIP and VAC (loss of limbs provide x dollars, etc).  Hence, if anything is given, it must be a lump sum.  1K, 5K or 10K, it doesn't matter to me as the amount is minor in the grand scheme.

I also agree with the notion of a “wounded bonus” but one even for fully recoverable injuries (if you get a wound stripe, then you get some compensation relative to the extent of your injury).

c.  SISIP Benefits.  If you lose parts of your body or your life, your NOK receive their money very quickly.  No issues with SISIP.

d.  VAC benefits.  There is absolutely no requirement for VAC to be waiting for a wounded soldier to get off the plane.  I've been involved on the periphery for wounded soldiers and there has been relatively few instances of VAC not going above and beyond what is required of them.  As HOM stated, if you fully recover from your wounds, you probably won't receive anything from VAC.  Why would you? 

It seems reasonable that the government should demand of SISIP to fix its program to provide coverage for loss/reduction of income due to medical repatriation (SISIP is, after all, an insurance).  VAC should handle any wounded bonus, and all VAC benefit should be dated to the moment the soldier suffered injury.

 

[GUNNER2006]

RIFLEMAN62,

YES YOU CAN COLLECT CPP NOW IF INJURED TO THE POINT THAT YOU CANT WORK.
AFTER MY INJURY TO MY LIMBS IN A SPECIAL DUTY AREA, IT COST ME MY CAREER.
I APPLIED TO DVA.AFTER ALL WAS SAID AND DONE,I SUFFERER DAILY FROM PAIN,LOSS OF FULL
USE AND CANT DO STUFF I USE TO DO. DVA OVER TIME GAVE ME A PENSION.WHEN I RETIRED THIS YEAR ,I APPLIED TO SISIP FOR LTD, THEY SAID YOU GET ZERO DOLLARS BECAUSE YOU GET YOUR MILITARY PENSION PLUS DVA WHICH IS 75% OF YOUR GROSS.I KNEW THIS BEFORE I APPLIED .THE REASON I APPLIED TO TO GET IN THE SYSTEM FOR SCHOOLING IF I WAS ABLE TO RETRAIN.THE 75% THING IS WRONG AND UNFAIR. I WOULD RATHER GET 75% FROM A RSM S PAY THAN A  JUNIOR NCM.

LETS SAY BOTH WERE INJURED AT THE SAME  TIME TOGETHER. BOTH CANT WORK ANYMORE.I THINK THE RSM WILL LIVE IN COMFORT  AND THE JUNIOR NCM  NOT AS GOOD. THESE INJURIES HAVE ALL KINDS OF IMPLICATIONS IN CIVIE WORLD. FOR EXAMPLE, I APPLIED FOR LIFE AND DISABILITY IN MY MORTAGE . I WAS DENIED BECAUSE OF MY CONDITION. THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT WOULD INSURE ME IS  SISIP BECAUSE I HAD AN OLD POLICY. I TRIED TO UP THE LIFE INSURANE .THEY SAID YOU COULD BE DENIED BECAUSE OF YOUR INJURY WAS AFTER THE POLICY AND YOU WOULD HAVE TO ANSWER NEW HEALTH QUESTIONS. SO HOW ARE YOU TO GET AHEAD? HOW TO YOU PROTECT YOUR FAMILY ?
WITH THE NEW VETERANS CHARTER, YOU GET A LUMP SUM DEAL PLUS OTHER PERKS.CAUTION ON THE LUMP SUM, THIS HAS TO LAST YOU THE REST OF YOUR LIFE AND THE MAXIMUM PAY OUT IS $250,00 . DVA WILL PAY 75% OF YOUR GROSS PAY MINUS CLAWBACK(SOUNDS LIKE SISIP)WHILE IN
A REHAB PROGRAM.YOU HAVE TO APPLY.YOU HAVE TO DOT YOUR I' S AND CROSS YOUR TEES TO GET AHEAD . AS A  SOLDIER, I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT ANY OF THIS STUFF UNTIL I WAS INJURED.THEN IT ALL HIT ME THAT THE SYSTEM THAT IS THERE TO PROTECT YOU IS NOT ALL THAT IT SEEMS.ON CBC A FEW NIGHTS AGO WHEN THE DANGER PAY ISSUE CAME UP, DND SAID YOU GET 2 PENSIONS AND 250, 000 DOLLARS IF HURT IN TOUR. THEY DIDNT TELL ABOUT THE CLAW BACKS.
FELLOW SOLDIERS, START ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT YOU POLICIES AND WHAT YOU ARE ENTILED TO IF INJURED. IF YOU ARE INJURED AND SUFFERING BECAUSE OF THESES ISSUES, WRITE TO YOUR
MPP. SHARE YOU STORY  BECAUSE THERE ARE MANY SOLDIERS  OUT THERE LIVING IN SILENCE, HARDSHIPS AND DONT KNOW WHERE TO GO NEXT.IS THAT A WAY FOR A SOLDIER TO BE TREATED FOR SERVING THIS COUNTRY?? 

  SUPPORT THE TROOPS 
GUNNER2006

 

[GAP]

Interesting read gunner2006, but could you tone down the shouting? All caps indicate shouting, and make it hard to read...please. 

 

[GUNNER2006]

Sorry,
Didnt realize I was in caps.No shouting intended.