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Life as an Infantry Soldier?

Greymatters said:
.... but most 'alpha male' behaviours that are tolerated in the military aren't considered to be modern 'good leadership' characteristics in the civilian world. 

I do agree with that one. I've been asked to "dial it down" on a few occasions in civilian employ, where my behaviour would have been condoned, (if not encouraged) as "showing leadership/initiative" within a military context.

(What I think of as being assertive is often labeled aggressive...communicating clearly is often read as condescension...etc).

HS
 
Hammer Sandwich said:
I do agree with that one. I've been asked to "dial it down" on a few occasions in civilian employ, where my behaviour would have been condoned, (if not encouraged) as "showing leadership/initiative" within a military context.

(What I think of as being assertive is often labeled aggressive...communicating clearly is often read as condescension...etc).

HS

This, this right here is a problem I face with as well... And I haven't even served.
 
Being assertive, aggressive and competitive isnt an issue - its pretty much a requirement for success in any occupation. 

The problem is when the Type A personality (or those immitating it) isnt able to recognize when they step over the line; becoming intimidating, and threatening, including harassment and bullying of other employees, subordinates or superiors; and insulting and demeaning actions and behaviour towards women.  These are common reasons for male employees being the focus of high-risk employee terminations.

 
 
Greymatters said:
And I would agree, but being the 'alpha male' isnt always a good thing - its fine if youre 25, single, and trying to shag everything in sight, but most 'alpha male' behaviours that are tolerated in the military arent considered to be modern 'good leadership' characteristics in the civilian world.

And at the same time, from full-time experience in two different civilian jobs (fast food industry and working in the trades, and some huge projects to boot) and also from a business education/theory perspective, the civilian world doesn't have much grasp on what "good leadership" is anyway.

I'm with you on personalities being much more complicated, I have a bad taste in my mouth for anything that tries to categorize that which is does not come in categories. Psychology classes I've taken and it's "type a/b" "alpha males" etc have made it famous for this kind of verbal diarhea. And then it leads us to conversations like this one, discussing "alpha males" when in fact two alpha males can be just as different as an alpha and beta male. What a crock of s**t! ;D

 
...unfortunately due to no single definition that everyone is willing to use for a 'good leader', or for an 'alpha male'.  The labels get slapped on people like a marketing campaign rather than by demonstration of the requirements.

 
Greymatters said:
And I would agree, but being the 'alpha male' isnt always a good thing - its fine if youre 25, single, and trying to shag everything in sight, but most 'alpha male' behaviours that are tolerated in the military arent considered to be modern 'good leadership' characteristics in the civilian world. 

These are good people to lead the way in a minefiled though!
 
daftandbarmy said:
These are good people to lead the way in a minefiled though!

You just want the young type a/alpha males out of the way so you can have all the babes for yourself! 

 
I know this is kind of a general and broad question, but I was hoping if anyone could just give me a few insights from first hand experience as to what life is like in the army as infantry, when you are deployed and when you are not. Anything would help me just kind of understand everything.
Thanks alot for your time.
 
Steve,

Please refer to page 1-4 of this thread. You will find out that there is no norm for any one person vs the next, and there is no norm day in and day out. You will sit around, you will be busy. You will be shooting your weapon or cleaning it of sand. You will get jacked up for things you have done or things you have not done in a group-jacking. What is life like in the infantry? You like it or you don't; there are great things in the job and there are real crappy things too.
 
Hey there everyone,

I have already applied and am going in for my interview this coming Wednesday! Just wondering if you have any advice for a woman join the infantry!

I am very physically fit, I will be NCM hopefully. The infantry has always been a calling for me. I love a job that keeps me on my toes, keeps me busy,a dn will keep me learning----and of course one that is physical!

Any advice, for my coming interview, and anyone worked with woman in the infantry? The amount of woman working in the infantry is probably pretty scarce.

Anyways! I would love to hear, anything! feedback! etc!  :cdn: ;D
 
RyaeC said:
I would love to hear, anything!
Then you'll love to hear this.....

Stop creating multiple posts asking the same question!  ::)
 
Female Infantry NCM....

Well, here's my advice and it is solely my opinion. I apologize in advance if it is not the most politically correct way to say some of these things.

-Never expect special treatment due to your gender. We are all gonna carry a weight that is retarded, not sleep enough, even eat (or not eat) the same crappy food in the field. If you start using the 'Oh, I can't watch this/carry this/do that b/c I am a girl....' card then that may fix the problem on the shorthand but you will rapidly lose the respect from your peers by doing that. I have seen guys who are a beanpole, 130 at 6ft and can't lift stuff but they don't complain. They still give their all. I will not deny that there may be things you can't do, but don't attribute it to gender; attribute it to your physical being. The army can work with you to improve your strength or technique. It cannot help you fix your gender.

-Avoid peer fraternisation. There will be times that you have down-time during training or a weekend off with nothing to do. Do not EVER, not in a million years, even if your life depended on it, sleep with a coursemate. Once you do that, you instantly move from a peer to a course sl*t. Once you start down the road, every lonely guy and swining d*ck will be expecting you to put out. You will see strong guys. you will see feats of phsyical prowess and any of that other subconsciously desirable aspects of guys. Do not bend to your human instinct. If you stay on the 'not available' side of the fence, you will maintain your reutation. Don't ever think that 'oh, Jimmy can keep his mouth shut' b/c he can't and won't. To further expand this, avoid even dating coworkers should you make it to a unit. That creates an administrative hurdle and becomes awkward when you break up.

-Be prepared for resistance. Yes, we are an army of the 21st century but it doesn't mean that there aren't guys with a 19th century mindset. People may gripe that 'their fireteam partner is a girl' or that 'their troop is bound to suck b/c she is a girl'.  Push through it and show them that having a girl isn't as bad as they think. I believe that girls have advantages over guys in some fields of our job but I won't get into that here. Understand that you are a female entering a predominantly male job; there will be those who think it should remain as such. In America, you can't even enter the infantry if you are a female (AFAIK).

-Realise that training is 95% one giant mindf*ck. In the infantry, you can't shoot at your trainees to test their stress so you have to yell at them, fatigue them and push them any other way you can. If you can wrap your head that what is done in training isn't a personal attack on you and just go where ever the tide takes you, the better you will do (good adive for even guys).

-Find your strengths and highlight them. Maybe you are good on polishing boots. Maybe you iron shirt like a professional. Maybe you are the only one willing to get down and scrub behind the toilet by hand. Trade something you are not good at for something you are. That will make training easier (good for guys too). When you get to the unit, do things you are great at. Maybe you aren't the best carrying the .50 cal around or C16 but you rock at languages or being a good shot.

Now I could go on but this may be nothing of what you were looking for. If it isn't, my apologies. If it is, then ask for more.
 
Continuing on, since I am at home now.

-Don't take things personally. You may find that it appears that everyone judges you and puts you initially in a lower catagory. It isn't necessarily b/c you are a woman though that could be the reason. Here is putting it lightly: everyone is judged in the infantry. This is partially due to an esprit de corps and partially due to a survival reaction. For example, if you are new to my unit, I myself would judge you on first glance or even mere mention of your name (male and female). Can you pull you weight? Are you gonna crack under stress? Will you have my back if I have yours? It is just the simple truth. Those that get their feathers ruffled b/c 'they are being judged' usually end up having qualities that demand to be judged and come up in want (aka the sh*tpumps)

-Understand that your gender may hold you back in career progression but not due to stereotypes. One day you will find a partner and you will have kids. Even though both you and your partner can take mata/pata leave, you quite probably, will be the one to have more time off. Therefore, you peers who you were equal to prior to having a kid now have a year of Unit Experience under their belt when you come back off leave and possibly will be of a higher rank. This is when your internal question of loyalty to unit vs loyalty to family would come up and something that every member has to face in the military, let alone the infantry.

-Do not come into the job with an attitude that you 'have something to prove' (advice for males and females). I have found that those who do that tend to have a spotlight on them. Although that spotlight may be good in some situations, usually it just is a nice accent light to highlight you when you mess up. Maybe you have something to prove that 'women can do it too' but make that an internal objective and not an external one. I had something to prove when I went through, that a kid who was 130 and 6ft could play in the infantry's sandbox, but I did not overtly go around with an attitude or chip on my shoulder.

-Volunteer for things (Male/Female advice). We all put our 'excessive volunteering history' on our application, but when it comes to tasks which are less than great, you will see that no one volunteers for it. I can tell you that it usually sucks but there are benefits to it. 1, it'll create character. 2, filling sandbags or doing GD for a banquet setup is always better than sitting around and doing nothing. Idleness brings out the spite in a lot of people and makes your time in the infantry drag out and take forever. And 3, your superiors -will- take notice so when an extra sh*tty task comes down, there eyes will pass over you (b/c you always volunteer for things) and go straight for the pumps that never do anything.

-If you are gonna talk the talk, then walk the walk (M/F advice). Every infantry unit will think they are the best of the 9 out there. Every one is 'the most elite of RegForce infantry' but very few people act like they are. Even in training, nothing used to anger me more than the guys who would proclaim that they were better in fitness than I (which they usually were) but it would bring great satisfaction and personal pride when I would outperform them during a fitness test. If you are elite, then make sure your weapon is clean. If you are a pro, then be in the top 10% of everything. Your safest bet for training and all of your career is quiet professionalism. Don't brag about your capabilities, but rather show them to others.

I have served with a number of females in the infantry during my short career. I think only one of them may still be in though. Here's what happened to a few of them:
-1 knew she was attractive and used that to her advantage. She became the course, and eventually whole training Coy's super-sl*t. Everyone wanted a piece of her...curvaceous backside but no one ended up supporting her in the end. They got what they wanted from her and left her to fend for herself. She was a burden on her Pl b/c she couldn't do a lot b/c of having everyone always do it for her. Even her current bf-of-the-week would be shunned by his peers for supporting her weakness. She eventually was injured and OT'd out.
-Another played the 'poor me' card often and, like the one above, was ostracized by her training Pl. She may not have slept around but rarely did anything on her own. She was injured and VR'd.
-Another had the chip on her shoulder. This caused her to be picked on and life was made a little harder when people would only help her when needbe (for fear of bringing her attitude's wrath upon them). I think she made it through training, but last casual poll, no one liked her on course and therefore I could not see a lasting career in the infantry.
-Finally, the one that I saw but never served with. She hung around the guys, joked with them and from what I saw, was treated just like one. No one had any problems with her and would even go as far as trading ration components during mealtime. Capable during the Coy attack and never complained (above the general grumbling) when they had to do it again. I always thought that she would have a lasting career, if not a healthy one while it lasted.
 
I have to thank you for everything you just wrote for me. I appreciate everything! That was a breath of fresh air, in a sense.

I truly hope I am neither the woman with a chip on her shoulder, or the "attractive" girl no one respects much.

I definitely do want to pull my weight, I am not expecting to be the one who asks for help because she is lazy and/or incompetent. I surely hope not at least.

Thank you for everything you posted though, It definitely gave me a lot to think about. Just the answer I needed to hear!

 
Just to add on the last,  women can go far in the Infantry just as long as they do what is expected of them,  be good at the job and show leadership - same applies to males and pretty much everyone(male/female) and all trades.


In PPCLI I know of a female Sgt as well as a Capt,  I'm sure theres others within the PPCLI as well as the other Regiments.  As well there is a female Operator within CSOR. 
 
RyaeC said:
...I am not expecting to be the one who asks for help because she is lazy and/or incompetent...

Remember, the infantry is a team activity and purely solo-work is not advised. Help out others and don't be afraid to have others help you.
 
Great posts GhostofJack - thanks for sharing.
 
GhostofJacK said:
Although that spotlight may be good in some situations, usually it just is a nice accent light to highlight you when you mess up.
  :rofl:

Awesome set of posts!  :nod:
 
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