MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )

[Nuggs]

Maybe we switched to Pheonix and they forgot to tell us [emoji39]

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[kev994]

Maybe we switched to Pheonix and they forgot to tell us [emoji39]

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I figured they didn’t want us to feel left out.

 

[OutLookingIn]

Any more information available now that the 18months has been approved and is to start for the Federal Gov in Dec? Any ideas how that will affect members?

 

[Lloydjohn93]

I have a question maybe somebody can answer. What is considered "imperative military requirement" . I'm supposed to be going on parental leave as of the 23rd of February. (Spouse is being induced) and it seemed to be a sure thing but now they want a note saying my spouse needs me for medical reasons to go on leave otherwise it will be deferred until after my courses. I'm going to get the note regardless. But on the forces site it says it can only be delayed because of imperative military requirement and that parental is my right to take it. In my mind that would mean war, or a deployment. Is there anything legal I could do if they deferred it if training wasn't under that ?

 

[kev994]

Maybe check the leave manual, it’s been a while but I seem to remember there is a bit specifically stating that a course is not a reason to deny pata

 

[Lloydjohn93]

Thank you

 

[mariomike]

For reference,

DAOD 5001-2, Maternity and Parental Benefits
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-defence-admin-orders-directives-5000/5001-2.page

Leave Policy Manual
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/leave-policy.page
Date modified: 2017-12-05

 

[Nuggs]

Career courses generally count. But most CMs defer for parental.

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[sidemount]

(8) (Military Requirements) A commanding officer may defer the start date of the period of parental leave if there are military imperative requirements.


Thats the only mention that I can find in the regs.

I would argue that a career course is not an imperative military requirement.

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[Nuggs]

I agree, however:

IMR include, but are not limited to:

participating in an operational deployment or major military exercise;

participating in an unforecasted tasking;

attending a career course;

attending a court martial; or

posting or attached posting (including any action related to it, such as HHT, out-clearances, travelling time, Special Leave (Relocation))

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[SupersonicMax]

It would be silly for you CoC to prioritize your course over your family.  Yes, it is per the instructions but there are chances it'd break you or your family.  The implications for the CAF would be greater than defering a career course for a couple of months...

 

[sidemount]

Do you mind posting the ref for that...Id like to add that to my bookmarks of useful mil refs

Interesting to see what military considers imparative...and really I dont think any of those are worthy of denying parental (besides a legal summons but thats kind of a interesting one). I would argue that there isn't one example of where a person isn't replaceable. Lets be honest, there is always someone else that can replace us, and career courses are run regularly.

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[Sub_Guy]

I always thought “imperative” meant that it was only something you and you only could do.

If the Op/Mission/task would fail without your presence, then I’d say that’s imperative (IMHO).

I’ve never seen a career course trump parental leave.

You can be recalled off parental leave for stuff (courts martial, posting, etc..).

 

[Nuggs]

Do you mind posting the ref for that...Id like to add that to my bookmarks of useful mil refs

Interesting to see what military considers imparative...and really I dont think any of those are worthy of denying parental (besides a legal summons but thats kind of a interesting one). I would argue that there isn't one example of where a person isn't replaceable. Lets be honest, there is always someone else that can replace us, and career courses are run regularly.

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Leave Policy Manual

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[Nuggs]

Agreed.

In past experience with subordinates I've never seen it be an issue for either CMs or COs. Especially if it was a Killick / Corporal.

I have seen two times in the past... One was a Senior NCM that needed the course for an OUTCAN that would have followed parental leave. And the other one was a Junior NCM involving a career course thats run rarely (every 18 months or so).

I have had one CO that attempted to block my own parental (70 days), for a forcegen sail.

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[PuckChaser]

Keep in mind the OP is brand new to the CAF and is waiting for a QL3 course for AVS tech. If that course is not run very often and the OP was not planning on taking the full year, I can definitely see where the imperative military requirement could be used. This is not deferring a QL5 or PLQ, its to get the member to OFP.

Let's make sure we have the whole story before anyone starts claiming decisively that it's not IMR.

 

[sidemount]

Leave Policy Manual

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And right at the very first of it....thanks, I obviously skipped right over that part.

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[captloadie]

What would you do, say for an individual working on a sponsored Masters programme, where the courses required are only run the winter semester, and is scheduled to finish at the end of the school year? Allowing the member to take time away from their studies could mean the individual now needs to wait until Jan 2019 to complete their training.

 

[Rheostatic]

Have there been any changes to CAF parental leave periods and benefits since the 2017 introduction of "Extended parental benefits" to the federal employment insurance program? Or, is it still limited to 37 weeks within the first year?

 

[dapaterson]

There was a CANFORGEN late last year. Short version: top up is still one year total MATA PATA combined,  but EI can be extended.

There are pension implications.