MATA and PATA ( Parental Leave )

[Angry_Johnny]

Just the avenue I thought I would have to go down.

Thanks for the INT/suggestions, and the well wishes!!

Will be doing this today.

 

[Sunny_Day]

I have a mbr on PATA leave, (father) as PATA is new to me I was wondering if anyone had dealt with this and had any lessons learned. Having read a lot of the publications but was hoping for some additional in site for the supervisor side. Does this member actually belong to me still or the orderly room? I honestly feel pretty disconnected in the process. As you can tell I am at a bit of a loss and could use some wisdom from anyone that has some to share.

Thanks

Have a Sunny Day :skull: :skull:

 

[BernDawg]

We have encountered this in the past and our solution was for us to write their PER based on their performance up to the point they went on leave.  PATA is not allowed to affect their career progression so we had to rate them against their peers as if they were in the shop based upon witnessed performance prior to and after going on PATA.
I guess to answer your question it would seem that you should look after your own and write their PER. (caveat... units do differ in the SOP's when it comes to this so check through your CoC)

 

[BinRat55]

As BernDawg stated above, it's no different than a member going on a tour.  You have to write a PER and you cannot use anything from the tour in that PER - you never had that member for 6 months.  That being said, the only time anyone belongs to "the orderly room" is either SPHL, BTL or PRETC. You do your best to write, keep in mind that you are allowed to use the sentence "Cpl Bloggins proceeded on PATA on 12 Jan 08, expertly completing all outstanding projects in a highly efficient manner aleviating this units need for a PATA backfill..." yada yada... get the drift?

 

[Sunny_Day]

Yup got it, its just as I had figured. I just did not want to find out after the fact that I had missed out or had the wrong process.

Cheers
Sunny

 

[BinRat55]

That's great.  Just asking the question means you care enough about this member's career.  There are some supervisors who couldn't be bothered.  "Someone else will do it...", "I already have 4 to do, can't someone else do it?" - I believe that if every PER drafter put as much effort into writing a PER as they do scrambling to their computer to view that day's Sunshine Girl, we would all be much better off!!

Good luck with your PER(s)...

 

[MdB]

I was wondering what happens to statutory days during the parental leave.  Are they lost and forgotten, are they paid or transferred as annuals?  Is there any reference I could find in the CFAOs?

Thx for the info.

 

[George Wallace]

Sorry.  You are on Leave.  You can not claim any other Leaves while on it.  No Special that may be granted to your fellow Unit members.  No Short.  No Statutory.  You have submitted you Leave and are fairly well stuck with it.  You could always cancel your Leave and then claim back any days you may have been called in for Duty, but you can not claim back another type of Leave if you are already on Leave.

Besides, while on PATA Lve, you are not collecting the same pay as you would on Lve otherwize, thus trying to claim back other Lve is only creating an Administrative nightmare both for the CF and Employment Insurance Agency/Sevices Canada.

 

[MdB]

Makes sense.  Is there any reference I could look up? DAOD probably?

Thanks for the information.

 

[PMedMoe]

Try DAOD 5001-2.  It doesn't specifically mention stat holidays, however, if you are on Parental Leave and are granted Sick Leave, your Parental Leave is not extended by the period of Sick Leave.

DAOD 5001-2, Maternity and Parental Benefits

 

[Biohazardxj]

You may also want to look at the new CF Leave Policy Manual.  Do a search, I believe there is a link to it on this forum.

When on MATA or PATA you will also lose 2 days annual for each full month you are on said leave.  (ie, if you normally get 25 days annual a year and you are on PATA from 01 Jul to 31 Aug, you annual leave entitlement will be reduced by 4 for that fiscal year)

 

[Cronicbny]

I am presently on PATA leave until the end of May. My EXPRES test expires on 18 Mar and I was curious if there were any regulations that would prevent me from going in and doing my test - or if there are liability issues if I get injured while doing it (unlikely, but CYA).

As I am on PATA I don't have access to the DIN, was just hoping someone might be able to shed some light on this.

Many thanks.

LK

 

[PuckChaser]

If you call your local PSP staff, I'm sure they've heard of this before and can point you in the right direction.

 

[Occam]

Geez, that's a good one.  You get a star for asking a question that's probably not been asked already!  ;D

There are a few policies in play here.  You can only be recalled from PATA/MATA leave for an "imperative military requirement".  DAOD 5001-2 lists examples of valid "imperative military requirements", such as:

- a house hunting trip under QR&O article 209.832, House Hunting Trip;

- travelling time provided under QR&O Chapter 209, Transportation and Travelling Expenses for a posting;

- Special Leave (Relocation) (CANFORGEN 054/99 ADM(HR-Mil) 042 181807Z Jun 99); and

- the period of time taken prior to a posting to complete out clearance, normally not more than one or two days.

My guess is that a CO would have a hard time justifying that an Expres test is an imperative military requirement.

As for doing the test while on LWOP - you aren't allowed to participate in the CF Sports program while on LWOP for liability reasons, therefore I would guess that the same would apply to the Expres test.

End result?  I'm willing to bet you'll end up with a "not tested" dot on your PER, with the requisite explanatory statement in the narrative.

Have you checked with the PSP staff?  Your chain of command?

 

[211RadOp]

End result?  I'm willing to bet you'll end up with a "not tested" dot on your PER, with the requisite explanatory statement in the narrative.

Have you checked with the PSP staff?  Your chain of command?

If he has been on PATA for an extended period of time, he will no doubt get a PERX and there is no dot for fitness testing on the PERX form.

 

[Occam]

If he has been on PATA for an extended period of time, he will no doubt get a PERX and there is no dot for fitness testing on the PERX form.

Max parental leave is 37 weeks.  52-37 = 15 weeks, or just shy of four months reporting period. 

The CFPAS manual says "There is no defined minimum observation period for a CFPAS Annual PER. However, in those rare instances where observation is so limited as to render it impossible to accurately report upon a person's performance and potential, then the unit CO may consider rendering a PER Exemption."

In practice, is 4 months too short a period to accurately report on performance?  Tough call.  If the OP took less than 37 weeks leave, it becomes an even tougher call.  It's only two points, though.

 

[Cronicbny]

Thanks for the replies so far.

To clarify, my CoC is not telling me to come in and do it - my supervisor was just letting me know it was coming due and suggested I go do it if i could.

I have contacted PSP staff and am awaiting calls back from them and NRCC.

Will advise - thanks again for the replies.

LK

 

[CountDC]

Well I just returned last month from pata leave and was not allowed to do the expres test while on it.  I will have a PERX vice a PER.  15 weeks is not a long period to observe someone on a PER when you have 7 weeks prior and 8 weeks after the pata period.  If it was a case of having the 15 weeks in the reporting period all together then I could see maybe doing a PER.

Oh - in actual fact often the week prior to the start of PATA is a write off too as the baby is born prior to the PATA start date and the member takes leave for the remaining of the week.  This is as they start PATA leave on the Sunday following the the birth. So in my case instead of 7 weeks prior they actually had 6 weeks as we went to the hospital on Monday, birth was the Tue, leave Wed to Fri and PATA start Sun. Add that my supervisor for the two periods have changed and it becomes pretty hard to do a PER.

 

[Occam]

Yes, I see your point.  Agree completely.

 

[Cronicbny]

Well I just returned last month from pata leave and was not allowed to do the expres test while on it.  I will have a PERX vice a PER.  15 weeks is not a long period to observe someone on a PER when you have 7 weeks prior and 8 weeks after the pata period. 

I suspect that NRCC and PSP will come back with much the same - especially given Occam's point that members on LWOP cannot participate in PSP Sports progammes.

I hope I don't get a PERX - I started PATA in late November so there are a good 7 3/4 months there....