Military budget squeeze limits paid Remembrance Day participation in Ontario

[Halifax Tar]

A lot of money was spent just in pay raises. As much as everyone loves a good raise, it takes a ton away from the budget and really doesn’t do much for what you can do.

Whether I am paid 50k or 70k or 100k the work I am doing is the same.

That must be it...

 

[Furniture]

Makes a difference to me. I'm not doing my job for $50-70K...

 

[Eaglelord17]

That must be it...

Just about 50% of the budget is spent on troops. Not saying it isn’t good money spent or not, just that it gobbles up a lot of the budget very quickly, and generally is the only ‘easy’ thing to cut (in the case of reducing Class A days).

Large pay raises eat into the budget quickly and doesn’t return any actual function (unlike say a capital expenditure on a ship, plane, tank, etc.).

 

[Halifax Tar]

Just about 50% of the budget is spent on troops. Not saying it isn’t good money spent or not, just that it gobbles up a lot of the budget very quickly, and generally is the only ‘easy’ thing to cut (in the case of reducing Class A days).

Large pay raises eat into the budget quickly and doesn’t return any actual function (unlike say a capital expenditure on a ship, plane, tank, etc.).

I know our pay and bennies bug you. You're always welcome back. In fact I am an MOC Advisor and can help make things smooth and fast.

DM me.

 

[Infanteer]

Just about 50% of the budget is spent on troops.

Not anymore. It's less than that now due to increase in spending elsewhere.

 

[Furniture]

Just about 50% of the budget is spent on troops.

Its that way, because Reg Force pay is the only "sacred" part of the defence budget. If we made half what we currently do, our pay would still be one of the largest parts of the defense budget, because it's the one thing that can't be "adjusted"/cut/pushed into future budgets.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I know our pay and bennies bug you. You're always welcome back. In fact I am an MOC Advisor and can help make things smooth and fast.

DM me.

Where did I say it bugs me? I said that it eats up the defence budget, which is a fact. You increase pay substantially, your budget needs to increase correspondingly to get the same output otherwise it has to eat into somewhere else.

I am happy with my civilian career, I do (in my opinion) a lot cooler stuff civvy side than the majority of things you can do in the military on a regular basis. Plus I am in the process of switching workforces to a nice 4/10 schedule (Tuesday-Friday 7-5). Life is good.

Its that way, because Reg Force pay is the only "sacred" part of the defence budget. If we made half what we currently do, our pay would still be one of the largest parts of the defense budget, because it's the one thing that can't be "adjusted"/cut/pushed into future budgets.

I have never advocated for halving salaries, I am just pointing out that increasing wages doesn't increase capabilities. It may or may not retain workers, but it doesn't make those workers perform better, nor does it buy equipment that allows those workers to perform better.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Where did I say it bugs me? I said that it eats up the defence budget, which is a fact. You increase pay substantially, your budget needs to increase correspondingly to get the same output otherwise it has to eat into somewhere else.

I am happy with my civilian career, I do (in my opinion) a lot cooler stuff civvy side than the majority of things you can do in the military on a regular basis. Plus I am in the process of switching workforces to a nice 4/10 schedule (Tuesday-Friday 7-5). Life is good.



I have never advocated for halving salaries, I am just pointing out that increasing wages doesn't increase capabilities. It may or may not retain workers, but it doesn't make those workers perform better, nor does it buy equipment that allows those workers to perform better.

Glad you're happy. If you the door is always open.

 

[Harris]

How zelaous, exactly, can an ARes CBG get ?

Your new here right? The stories I could tell about 36/37 CBG.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Your new here right? The stories I could tell about 36/37 CBG.

 

[Jarnhamar]

, I do (in my opinion) a lot cooler stuff civvy side than the majority of things you can do in the military on a regular basis.

What kinda cool stuff do you do?

 

[childs56]

Just about 50% of the budget is spent on troops. Not saying it isn’t good money spent or not, just that it gobbles up a lot of the budget very quickly, and generally is the only ‘easy’ thing to cut (in the case of reducing Class A days).

Canada spends 34% of their budget on Personal. Which is equal in comparison to most other industries across the board. So their budget for wages and benefits is not tremendous.

Large pay raises eat into the budget quickly and doesn’t return any actual function (unlike say a capital expenditure on a ship, plane, tank, etc.).

The budget gets increased to account for those pay raises normally. Pay raises have a definite extremely important function for recruiting, training and retaining well trained dedicated Soldiers, sailors and Aviators.

 

[Eaglelord17]

What kinda cool stuff do you do?

I make and repair things generally made out of metal as a machinist/fitter. A few particularly notable ones for me are repairing a broken in two 55,000lb shaft back to spec, reverse engineering a train electric motor from scratch with no print, worked on large frames on a giant boring mill, got a stuck coupling with a 18” diameter fit to move the 1” it was stuck to where it needed to be, etc.

Heres two photos of that 55,000 broken shaft being repaired in a 6’ lathe made from somewhere between 1898 and 1926. For scale reference I am standing in the first photo working on the machine and I am 6’2”.

 

[Staff Weenie]

As a former CO, I can tell you it is extremely easy to go well over your initial allocation. During my years as DCO, and later as CO, we were never given a sufficient initial allocation to achieve the must-do items in the annual CAPG from higher - the math just didn't work. We would be given about $950K to start (pay and O&M), but would routinely spend $1.2 - $1.5M. There would be the inevitable questions on why (you told me to grow the unit rapidly....). One year, I pissed off the HQ by zero-funding some mandated activities in my Business Plan, just to get a response that I could push back on. But, in my last year as CO, FY 25/26, we had all sorts of money available, we just had to ask with justification. My higher Comd never shut me down.

That said, I have come to believe that the overall system does not have a great knowledge of how much money and effort it takes to train and operate a Res F unit - the senior J8 and Business Planners were mostly either Reg F (who never see nor care about salary), ex-Reg F, or civilians who have never served. They do not understand the Reserves overly well. Typically, a Reg F Private was recruited by a CFRC and shows up at a unit with BMQ and their 3s already completed. We have to find people, attract them, process their recruiting files, and then coordinate or deliver all of their training.

I've pushed for years that in order to enable effective unit activities and training, we need about 10% of any unit's effective strength to be Cl B in the unit in Ops & Trg, OR, and RQ/Tn. Larger units need two full time Officers - Adjt and Ops O. Combat Medic RQ3 is 91 training days, and some of that can be locally taught - we need a fulltime cadre capable of delivering in-house training (this is slowly coming online).

By continually tightening the purse strings, we reduce the training and effectiveness of units, which causes frustration. By eliminating anything which leads to enhanced morale and cohesion, we do not build loyalty and dedication. These factors causes attrition.

 

[daftandbarmy]

As a former CO, I can tell you it is extremely easy to go well over your initial allocation. During my years as DCO, and later as CO, we were never given a sufficient initial allocation to achieve the must-do items in the annual CAPG from higher - the math just didn't work. We would be given about $950K to start (pay and O&M), but would routinely spend $1.2 - $1.5M. There would be the inevitable questions on why (you told me to grow the unit rapidly....). One year, I pissed off the HQ by zero-funding some mandated activities in my Business Plan, just to get a response that I could push back on. But, in my last year as CO, FY 25/26, we had all sorts of money available, we just had to ask with justification. My higher Comd never shut me down.

That said, I have come to believe that the overall system does not have a great knowledge of how much money and effort it takes to train and operate a Res F unit - the senior J8 and Business Planners were mostly either Reg F (who never see nor care about salary), ex-Reg F, or civilians who have never served. They do not understand the Reserves overly well. Typically, a Reg F Private was recruited by a CFRC and shows up at a unit with BMQ and their 3s already completed. We have to find people, attract them, process their recruiting files, and then coordinate or deliver all of their training.

I've pushed for years that in order to enable effective unit activities and training, we need about 10% of any unit's effective strength to be Cl B in the unit in Ops & Trg, OR, and RQ/Tn. Larger units need two full time Officers - Adjt and Ops O. Combat Medic RQ3 is 91 training days, and some of that can be locally taught - we need a fulltime cadre capable of delivering in-house training (this is slowly coming online).

By continually tightening the purse strings, we reduce the training and effectiveness of units, which causes frustration. By eliminating anything which leads to enhanced morale and cohesion, we do not build loyalty and dedication. These factors causes attrition.

The torturous leadership experience you've just nicely described (hats off to you!) also adversely impacts succession as many who might otherwise be interested in the CO's job in the future take one look and decide "Oh hell naw...". Same goes for RSM.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I make and repair things generally made out of metal as a machinist/fitter. A few particularly notable ones for me are repairing a broken in two 55,000lb shaft back to spec, reverse engineering a train electric motor from scratch with no print, worked on large frames on a giant boring mill, got a stuck coupling with a 18” diameter fit to move the 1” it was stuck to where it needed to be, etc.

Heres two photos of that 55,000 broken shaft being repaired in a 6’ lathe made from somewhere between 1898 and 1926. For scale reference I am standing in the first photo working on the machine and I am 6’2”.

Sounds dangerous. I bet you can make all kinds of interesting things made out of metal, we should talk

 

[childs56]

As a former CO, I can tell you it is extremely easy to go well over your initial allocation. During my years as DCO, and later as CO, we were never given a sufficient initial allocation to achieve the must-do items in the annual CAPG from higher - the math just didn't work. We would be given about $950K to start (pay and O&M), but would routinely spend $1.2 - $1.5M. There would be the inevitable questions on why (you told me to grow the unit rapidly....). One year, I pissed off the HQ by zero-funding some mandated activities in my Business Plan, just to get a response that I could push back on. But, in my last year as CO, FY 25/26, we had all sorts of money available, we just had to ask with justification. My higher Comd never shut me down.

That said, I have come to believe that the overall system does not have a great knowledge of how much money and effort it takes to train and operate a Res F unit - the senior J8 and Business Planners were mostly either Reg F (who never see nor care about salary), ex-Reg F, or civilians who have never served. They do not understand the Reserves overly well. Typically, a Reg F Private was recruited by a CFRC and shows up at a unit with BMQ and their 3s already completed. We have to find people, attract them, process their recruiting files, and then coordinate or deliver all of their training.

I've pushed for years that in order to enable effective unit activities and training, we need about 10% of any unit's effective strength to be Cl B in the unit in Ops & Trg, OR, and RQ/Tn. Larger units need two full time Officers - Adjt and Ops O. Combat Medic RQ3 is 91 training days, and some of that can be locally taught - we need a fulltime cadre capable of delivering in-house training (this is slowly coming online).

By continually tightening the purse strings, we reduce the training and effectiveness of units, which causes frustration. By eliminating anything which leads to enhanced morale and cohesion, we do not build loyalty and dedication. These factors causes attrition.

Not a thing has changed in decades.
In 1998 during my leadership course my regular force Course Warrant lost his mind on us.
You f people make 85%of our wage and you show up without the proper kit, training or no how.
Once we ran our admin briefing and then some people had problems with pay he had to deal with he apologized. He said what a f messed up system you have. It is amazing any of you do what you do.
He was under the impression that we received 85%of regular force pay everyday if we worked or not.
If a regular force private made $1000 a month, reservist made $850 a month if they worked or not.

I wonder if you go through the halls of NDHQ and ask the question how many of the decision makers understand the reserve pay system?

They are going to loose a decent amount of dedicated people who will focus their time and energy somewhere else as they cut the budget.
They can say this is only short term for so long.
if you dont run a full gauntlet of courses from basic recruit up to advanced courses you loose a full year which now translates into two years before you get a trained person.
Oh well let her fail then rebuild it with competent people.

 

[brihard]

Sounds dangerous. I bet you can make all kinds of interesting things made out of metal, we should talk

Don’t make me say it.

 

[MilEME09]

Not a thing has changed in decades.
In 1998 during my leadership course my regular force Course Warrant lost his mind on us.
You f people make 85%of our wage and you show up without the proper kit, training or no how.
Once we ran our admin briefing and then some people had problems with pay he had to deal with he apologized. He said what a f messed up system you have. It is amazing any of you do what you do.
He was under the impression that we received 85%of regular force pay everyday if we worked or not.
If a regular force private made $1000 a month, reservist made $850 a month if they worked or not.

I wonder if you go through the halls of NDHQ and ask the question how many of the decision makers understand the reserve pay system?

They are going to loose a decent amount of dedicated people who will focus their time and energy somewhere else as they cut the budget.
They can say this is only short term for so long.
if you dont run a full gauntlet of courses from basic recruit up to advanced courses you loose a full year which now translates into two years before you get a trained person.
Oh well let her fail then rebuild it with competent people.

I doubt anyone understands RPSR any more, and it really needs replacing. Ive seen the british system and its a much more stream lined system where a platoon warrant logs in to a system in a parade night. Checks off who is present and it automatically registers them to be paid. They even do quarter days so if you just gotta show uo for one meeting. You get paid just for that


I still have people waiting on ottawa for class C pay from op nanook, people who have gone over a year and not paid for a brigade ex. Its an absolute disaster