Military Making Pitch to Aboriginal Youth ($1,200 bonus for aboriginals)

[Brasidas]

Maybe someone could clarify something else for me aswell. The aboriginals on these types of courses, are they only from reservations, or not? I heard plenty of people say that its a good way to, well, help the aboriginals stay away from the problems on some of these reservations, so is it only limited to them?

Nope. ArmyChick was saying that this program's for "anyone who identifies themselves as aboriginal", regardless of whether they are status or non-status. I'm not sure if my naturalized Arabic friend could apply with a straight face, though.

So while you may have someone from Nunavut who has an extreme reaction to trees, as mentioned in an earlier post, you could have an MD's son who's 1/16 native, born and raised in downtown Toronto, qualified for the program.

 

[LineJumper]

Well, I don't see as this would have helped me come to a decision on joining, as none of these programs existed when I joined. Is it a good thing? Sure. I've instructed Bold Eagle as well, thought it was a pretty good program (aside from being posted to Wainwright). $1200 is nothing. I feel more remorse for the reservists that lost contracts, than to the few recruits that decided/ were unable to continue a career in the CF.

Oh yeah, I carry a card and abuse it on occasion....(sometimes you cant find a toothpick for the life of ya!)

:2c:

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Perhaps you're looking at it the wrong way then. How about you look at it this way:

"Hey, we're not racist, we're actually quite good at adapting to diverse demographics ... don't believe us? Come on out and try this as a sample of what we have to offer to you and, if you're impressed, tell your friends."

The lens one wears upon their eyes sometimes carry with them the ability to tint things a different colour. try looking at it through other colours sometimes ... you may just find yourself pleasantly surprised.

I like that way of explaining it.  *golf clap*

 

[armychick2009]

Nero wrote:
I am not so uptight about the money side of this situation. My thoughts on the subject are, however, that if you want to stop discriminating based on race or culture, stop seeing people based on their race and culture.

I find it a bit contradictory to basically say "Hey, we're not racist. See? We hired that black guy, and that native." I think that only when we stop identifying people as part of a certain race will we truly help eliminate discrimination.

Thanks for your comment... I suppose though the best way I can reply to this is, Your national protective forces (DND) should consist a fair representation of the demographics from the lands at which it is to protect... Canada. Sea to sea to sea to US border. Having a demographically representative army prevents a lot of issues... which, I won't delve into because they are infinite. Everyone use their imagination!

 

[vonGarvin]

Thanks for your comment... I suppose though the best way I can reply to this is, Your national protective forces (DND) should consist a fair representation of the demographics from the lands at which it is to protect... Canada. Sea to sea to sea to US border. Having a demographically representative army prevents a lot of issues... which, I won't delve into because they are infinite. Everyone use their imagination!

Screw demographics.  If left-handed blonde lesbians make the best pilots, then so be it.  Base it on merit and capabilities alone.  That is fair and equal treatment.
I would argue that having a "demographically representative army" (on purpose, vice by happenstance) creates mistrust and also ensures that the right people are not in the right job, though they may look good doing it.

 

[Remius]

Technoviking:  The CF does not have any quotas based on age, gender, culture or whatever.  Only attraction tools to get certain groups to actually apply to better meet our diversity targets.  Rest assured that people that are attracted to the CF via these means still have to compete and meet all the requirements.  No free pass.  armychick went through the program but still has to be merited agaisnt all other applicants applying for her trade.

   

 

[armychick2009]

Mistrust is created when a people who are to protect "us", doesn't comprise of "us".

"Us" in this case, is any demographic group in Canada. Poor. Rich. White. Black. Immigrant. Indigenous.  When armies aren't comprised this way, things get out of control. For example, I wonder how many Jewish people were in the SS?

 

[vonGarvin]

Hi Crantor
I understand that.  That was not my issue.  My only issue was with the assertion that a diverse forces is "better" and by great extension, important, in the CF.  The job is the job.  If right handed heterosexuals aren't attracted to the MSEOp trade, then so be it.  I don't think it's worth the effort to pander to them.  Just show the job for what it is, and they will come, whoever "they" are, and I could care less, so long as they can perform, left-handed or right handed.  That's all.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Mistrust is created when a people who are to protect "us", doesn't comprise of "us".

"Us" in this case, is any demographic group in Canada. Poor. Rich. White. Black. Immigrant. Indigenous.  When armies aren't comprised this way, things get out of control. For example, I wonder how many Jewish people were in the SS?

Sorry, but this is way offside.  To equate 21st century Canada to Nazi Germany is completely out to lunch.  I would have expected better. 

 

[vonGarvin]

Mistrust is created when a people who are to protect "us", doesn't comprise of "us".

"Us" in this case, is any demographic group in Canada. Poor. Rich. White. Black. Immigrant. Indigenous.  When armies aren't comprised this way, things get out of control. For example, I wonder how many Jewish people were in the SS?

Reductio ad Hitlerum.  Oi vey!
I suppose then the the general public doesn't trust us then?  Of the 138 deaths in Afghanistan, only nine were either not Caucasion or not male.  So, logic says that 129 white males died in Afghanistan, 3 women (again, white), six were visible minorities.  I could care less what gender or race they were.  "They" were  "us".  Fellow Canadian citizens. 

 

[Jarnhamar]

Hi Crantor
I understand that.  That was not my issue.  My only issue was with the assertion that a diverse forces is "better" and by great extension, important, in the CF.  The job is the job.  If right handed heterosexuals aren't attracted to the MSEOp trade, then so be it.  I don't think it's worth the effort to pander to them.  Just show the job for what it is, and they will come, whoever "they" are, and I could care less, so long as they can perform, left-handed or right handed.  That's all.

Good point.

This was an eye opening thread.

I'll revisit it when we offer incentive programs to homosexuals transgender bicurious and two-spirited individuals to join up.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Mistrust is created when a people who are to protect "us", doesn't comprise of "us".

"Us" in this case, is any demographic group in Canada. Poor. Rich. White. Black. Immigrant. Indigenous.  When armies aren't comprised this way, things get out of control. For example, I wonder how many Jewish people were in the SS?

Hummmmm??  :-\

 

[TCBF]

Mistrust is created when a people who are to protect "us", doesn't comprise of "us". ...

- The mistrust works both ways as well.  After generations of Canadians of European heritage carrying the load - statistically - some may ask when the 'new' Canadians are going to start pulling their weight.  By 'new', I mean nations and cultures who were largely not a factor 1867 - 1967. 

- The only fair way to apply racial and cultural quotas is through conscription.

- As long as the 'internal' guidance given to the recruiting system remains 'internal', gossip will prevail.

 

[Remius]

Hi Crantor
I understand that.  That was not my issue.  My only issue was with the assertion that a diverse forces is "better" and by great extension, important, in the CF.  The job is the job.  If right handed heterosexuals aren't attracted to the MSEOp trade, then so be it.  I don't think it's worth the effort to pander to them.  Just show the job for what it is, and they will come, whoever "they" are, and I could care less, so long as they can perform, left-handed or right handed.  That's all.

I get where you are coming from.  However the CF should be a reflection of our society.  And yes a more diverse CF is a better one.  We benefit from having a large pool of diverse people.  It allows us to be more effective.  I'm sure you can see the benefit of having someone of a different culture or gender when dealing with people of those groups.  No one is saying hire them based on that.  But if we can hire the best person for the job and get the advantage of having that diversity then why not?  The CF is more than just "the job" because "the job" may require more than what "the job" says it is on paper.

 

[armychick2009]

No, I'm not comparing 21st century today to the holocaust. What I am saying is, if you aim for a military that does not include those which it is to protect, you run a risk.

I use the most extreme case of this, to point it out.  Definitely not comparing, believe me. Canada will never get to that point. Neither will Germany again.  And, I'm glad I provoked that response, it's exactly what I wanted. A sense of extremism. But those ideas started small and grew to the point of no-return. It was a case-in-point of what happens when an armed forces isn't representative of who it is designed to protect.  What is the tipping point?


I will now point out that I have had two friends die overseas. Another was my friend's husband. With regards to WW2, my grandfather was a POW for three years in North Africa. My great-uncle died. Another went missing when he returned to Canada after being part of some elite groups over there (shell-shock, started a new life elsewhere). I also have German Jewish ancestry from the other side of my non-native family.  WW1, my great-grandfather participated as well and was listed as Missing, for two years overseas until he was finally discovered to be a prisoner at the end of war.  So, please don't think I was "belittling" that war (or the past, present conflicts as well) whatsoever.

My apologies if anyone was offended, that wasn't the intention.

 

[Kat Stevens]

To take your point to it's logical conclusion then, the SS was the very epitome of the people it was created to protect, wouldn't you say?

 

[vonGarvin]

My apologies if anyone was offended, that wasn't the intention.

I, for one, wasn't offended.  No apology required, IMHO.

 

[vonGarvin]

To take your point to it's logical conclusion then, the SS was the very epitome of the people it was created to protect, wouldn't you say?

As a side bar, I would argue "yes", and it wasn't just Germans either.  The Waffen-SS, the armed wing of the Schutzstaffel, was comprised of a number of volunteers.  These volunteers consisted of Germans, Ethnic Germans living in foreign lands ("Volksdeutsche"), Germanics (eg: Dutch, Scandanavians) and "others" (Croats, Bosnians and so forth).  It was, in effect, the first pan-European armed force in modern times.
EDIT TO ADD: The Wehrmacht (including Heer, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine) was comprised of almost exclusively Germans only, with some notable exceptions, such as the "Blue" Division, comprised of Spanish volunteers.  The Waffen-SS was, ironically, the most ethnically diverse armed force fighting for the Germans in WW 2.

Now, back on topic ;D

 

[George Wallace]

.........  However the CF should be a reflection of our society.  ...........

The CF is a reflection of Canadian society.  Those who honestly and truely care about the nation in which they live, apply; those who have no interest in Canada, no loyalties except to self, etc. do not apply to join the CF. 

 

[Forgotten_Hero]

I suppose though the best way I can reply to this is, Your national protective forces (DND) should consist a fair representation of the demographics from the lands at which it is to protect... Canada. Sea to sea to sea to US border.

I think that the DND should consist of whatever demographics joined the army. If, for some strange reason, no aboriginals ever joined the army, that doesnt mean we're racist. It simply means no aboriginals joined the army.  For someone to then look at this statistic and say "Wow, we need to focus our efforts more on recruiting aboriginals" we're now basing our actions on race. Giving people of a certain skin colour priviliedges that others dont have. The intention isnt necessairly bad, but as I said earlier, if you want to rid the world of racism, I think you need to stop basing your actions on the colour of some skin.

Base it on merit and capabilities alone.  That is fair and equal treatment.

Indeed. This is pretty common in the military though, and isnt just limited to race but gender and even age in a way too.