More "Army" in Army Cadets (combat training, etc.)

[JB 11 11]

Perhaps you should go back and read the Mission Statement of the Army Cadets:

The Royal Canadian Army Cadets appeal to teenagers craving exciting outdoor activities where their personal limits as individuals and team-members will be tested. The hardcore outdoor-oriented will love the challenge!

Army cadets develop abilities in the use of map and compass, GPS technology, orienteering, first-aid, camping and survival skills, canoeing, abseiling, trekking, mountain biking, etc. As they get more experienced, some will be selected for parachuting, white-water rafting and glacier climbing. They will also learn to become outdoor leaders.



Army Cadets get involved in ceremonial military events and citizenship activities that allow them to connect to their Canadian heritage. They develop a great sense of pride and discipline through their involvement in a hierarchical system that allows them to hone their leadership skills as they grow older and they learn to care for younger cadets.



In addition to their specialty training, Army Cadets may become involved in other exciting activities like competitive Olympic-style marksmanship and biathlon, sports competitions, music training and competitions, cultural outings, volunteer community support, etc.

Canada represents the best playground for teenagers interested in the outdoors. We are the organization of choice for teens and adults interested in getting out of the classroom to explore the planet the way it should be.

Join the reserves if you want begin to learn The Profession of Arms.

Wow. Things HAVE definitely changed. Fair enough. As for the negative stigma, given that mission statement I can certainly see why when a lowly Cadet talks as if they have military experience, they look ridiculous and are treated as such. They no longer have any.

As for Conditioning 12 year olds, that's one way to look at it. But i don't see many former Cadets going into their high schools and shooting up their entire class, or robbing 7-elevens at gun point, but then again its all about the optics these days isn't it.

I'll take the hint and keep m'trap shut now. :-X

 

[RCDtpr]

You were never in Cadets were you? Either that or you Corps really sucked.

Just curious why people have to dump all over Cadets all the time? Sure they ask bone questions a lot of the time, but mostly its because they're keen. Give the kid a break. He wants to be like YOU!

As for section attacks in Cadets, I did em (1990-1997) and myself and senior Cadet NCO's went on Field exercises with our regiments on a regular basis. But back then we also had our own armory filled with FN C1A1's and full bore .308 Lee Enfields and shot till we were blue in the face. Most of this was down to the fact that our Corps was well endowed in the finance department thanks to an active Parents comity, but we had to get permission to spend that money the way we did. It was common practise for Cadet Corps to emulate as close as possible their parent regiments  and thus would train in a military manner. Hell, when I was 16 I could completely disassemble (100%... not field strip here) an FN blind folded, and then reassemble it no problem.

I'm not sure why there is such an anti-military attitude with Cadets now? If that's the way we think about the organization as Canadians these days, then whats the point of even having them wear a uniform or be affiliated to any military unit? If it is just about Leadership, confidence and Map and Compass, then there are other non-military organizations for this: Scouts and Venturers

Personally, the reason I joined Cadets instead of Venturers was because I wanted to be in the Military, but as I was just a wee lad still, Cadets would have to do. And it did. Come to think of it, I distinctly remember the local Cadet Corps (Oshawa) pulling security along side the Ontario Reg. guys during Canada Day down at the lake (Talking '80's here).

All that said, I am sad to say that toward the end of my day things like field Ex's with the regiment and shooting real weapons were quickly going the way of the Dodo. From what I hear now, airguns are where its at with most Corps and Lee Enfields for the ranges...maybe. No FN's, which is a shame because like it or not, I was taught how to not only shoot (which by the way, I still can...and well) but more importantly how to properly handle and respect a firearm.

However, referring to OP, if your senior NCO's and CO are supportive and you also have the support of your Parent Reg. then I do not see why you would not practice Section attacks and the like.
I can tell you that had we not had support from our Parent Reg. we most likely would not have done a lot of the amazing things we got to do. Creating a good, solid relationship with those guys is definitely the key.
My :2c:
JB

Nope...i never was a cadet.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not trashing cadets.  I think it's a great way for KIDS to learn leadership, build confidence and make friends.  I'm not down on the kid for asking a question or being keen either.  But if he joins the army he has an entire career learning how to fight etc.  Enjoy your childhood while you can.

Kids don't need to practice killing, attacking etc.  Some of the older cadets might be ok, but the younger ones simply do not have the maturity to understand what it is they are doing and why they are doing it.  The goal of the program is not to teach kids violence.

Dear god...I'm sounding like a hippie here so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[shreenan]

Yeah im 16 now and the age for the Primary reserve has changed from 16-17.

Now about the section attacks and such, in the 40's-90's CADETS did alot more military like things like why have ARMY cadets if the only army thing is the uniforms (more less).

Iv been in cadets for four years and only shot the C7 once but in older pictures cadets are firing the bren gun and now we can only shoot the C7 five rounds in a mag at one time and semi auto and yes cadets are shooting pelt rifles now it gets boring after four years

 

[Michael OLeary]

The cadet program of today must meet the expectations and limitations placed upon it today. Wishing it to be something it once was, but can no longer be is wasted energy. You have been offered the reasons why this is so, and none of us have the power to change them, nor can you expect the federal government to do so. If you want to be trained as a soldier, you will have to wait until you are old enough.

 

[shreenan]

I only asked why people think it changed :facepalm:    and yes I will wait.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I only asked why people think it changed :facepalm:    and yes I will wait.

Because Canada invented a social engineering concept known as political correctness.  Now, to have children running around with guns in the woods, was almost as bad as having Soldiers walking around with guns in cities.

You are only 16, not much long before you are eligible to join.  So be patient padwan, the force will be your soon.

dileas

tess

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Now about the section attacks and such, in the 40's-90's CADETS did a lot more military like things like why have ARMY cadets if the only army thing is the uniforms (more less).

And during the 40-90's it also was acceptable to smoke while pregnant, drive without a seatbelt, and beat your children...whats your point?

Society changes for the better, most of the time, due to knowing better. If even a corrupt Taliban commander can deem that "only men of beard growing age" can join their desperate cause, do you think progressive Canadian society will deem it acceptable for kids to train as a military force? that is definitely not for the benefit of Canada or Canadian society.

Iv been in cadets for four years and only shot the C7 once but in older pictures cadets are firing the bren gun and now we can only shoot the C7 five rounds in a mag at one time and semi auto and yes cadets are shooting pelt rifles now it gets boring after four years

I was in cadets for 6, I saw all the same pictures and heard the same stories about the good ol days.  Times change, get over it.

If you do join, you'll find out that the "excitement" of firing heavier weapons lasts less than 5 minutes, but the more exciting two thirds of the day are spend cleaning said weapons  8). Oh my, the though of cleaning carbon out of a C9 just gets me PUMPED  :shooter2:! Or waiting in line at the CQ and having the weapon turned away for the 5th time. That would have to be the best part of the day, right there 

 

[dapaterson]

If you do join, you'll find out that the "excitement" of firing heavier weapons lasts less than 5 minutes, but the more exciting two thirds of the day are spend cleaning said weapons  8).

[war story]
In the 1990s, CFB Chilliwack had a well-oiled machine in place to kit out young officers arriving for training.  Your stop at the weapons lockup would have the staff tell you your weapon serial number, you'd recite it back, they'd drop a bolt in the C7, screw on the BFA, slap in a magazine of 5.56 blank, set it to auto, fire off the mag into a clearing bay, then remove the magazine and bolt, hand your course staff the bolt, and hand you the freshly soiled weapon, all with a smirk on their face.
[/war story]

 

[JB 11 11]

Nope...i never was a cadet.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not trashing cadets.  I think it's a great way for KIDS to learn leadership, build confidence and make friends.  I'm not down on the kid for asking a question or being keen either.  But if he joins the army he has an entire career learning how to fight etc.  Enjoy your childhood while you can.

Kids don't need to practice killing, attacking etc.  Some of the older cadets might be ok, but the younger ones simply do not have the maturity to understand what it is they are doing and why they are doing it.  The goal of the program is not to teach kids violence.

Dear god...I'm sounding like a hippie here so I'll just leave it at that.

To be clear, I never advocated that 12 year old's be given a loaded weapon and taught to shot "human" shaped targets or how to do section attacks. I was talking in terms of Cadets as a whole. Sure back when I was a Cadet we did a lot of cool stuff that today is Verboten, what ever the reasons, BUT... and here's the kicker.. YOU had to EARN the privilege to do those cool things. It was never, ever forced on those who did not want to partake.

To be honest, I thought Cadets was really boaring for the first few years bacuase you had to be senior to be allowed to do a lot of the extra trainning they offered. And there were plenty who did not want to do extra range days, or mock tower jumps out at Pet. or go on FTX with our Parent Reg. It's just a bit sad that all of that has been taken away.

And during the 40-90's it also was acceptable to smoke while pregnant, drive without a seatbelt, and beat your children...whats your point?

LOL!... thats a great comparison.... smoking while pregnant= Cadets post 1999.  :facepalm:

Look, times have changed and things are the way they are now. Im not saying we need to change it back, Im just saying I think its too bad that kids arent being given the chance to prove themselves capable of handling something a little more than Drill and absailling.

And for those of the opinion that kids should be left to be kids and enjoy there child hood.... again, I totaly agree. It is not mandatory for your child to go to Cadets. If you do not want them to be in that type of evironment, them put them in Soccer, or Scouts... rock climbing classes.

 

[Jammer]

You promised you would keep your trap shut.

 

[Franko]

This has spun nicely around the bowl and I hate doing the mandatory "second flush" to rid it of the corn, so I'll lock it up.

Normal caveats apply.

The Army.ca Staff

 

[shreenan]

How would you put more army back into army cadets?

my  :2c: is go shooting the service weapons more and just not the C7 but the C9 would be interesting and learning how to field strip,clean and maintain the weapons as well.

 

[Hurricane]

As fun as that may be for you. That would make Cadets Canada seem more like Child Soldiers. Cadets is a youth organization that is based on the community first, with some military traditions and drill for pride and discipline. They already have access to the C7, as well as Basic Para which seems easier to get as a cadet than a member of the canadian forces. You want to be more army than that? My  :2c: join the reserves when you come of age.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Introducing 2 x 10s, trench digging, and wearing numerous pounds of equipment in both very hot and Cold weather and making them do inhumane amounts of needles mind numbing duties.

dileas

tess

 

[dogger1936]

The army cadets are beyond repair. They have A GREAT well written program but no way of implementing it outside of the pretty little QSP's. CIC officers are not held to any form of standard and many of those in "charge" at the HQ's are afraid to upset anyone as they are all on a class B and waiting for someone to take their jobs.

The CIC officers I have met out at the corp levels have little to no experience in anything military; and ACO's have slipped from regular force officer positions to CIC officers as there isn't enough reg force per's to fill the billets. These men and women are buddies with everyone at the corps and afraid of enforcing any kind of standard. The CIC officers for the most part at corp level WANT to know how to do their jobs but are never corrected due to the corrupt B class system that inflicts fear in these people to correct faults.

Many corps are losing members to the junior ranger program which is by far a better program for youth. I would never allow my son or daughter to be involved in the cadet program. The army is gone from the program and as the numbers suggest it is a fading out at least here on the east coast.

This is from the point of view of an ACA within the program. The HQ is scared of addressing problems such as mandatory training being...well...if they don't do it they don't do it training instead. As a regular force member I have been jacked up by CIC officers for THEIR incompetence showing through and there is nothing I can do or say as they hold a commission.

I came into the ACA job with a open mind and a willingness to help out as I'm still awaiting some surgeries from my lovely time in afganland. I have tried my best but I would advise any reg or res members thinking about getting involved in the program to stay out. As a regular force NCO with excellent service record I have been talked down to like a cadet NCM by career CIC officers.

I have never been so disrespected in my career and if as a regular force NCO I am getting treated like this there is no way I would put my children in these "mens" hands. 

(On a lighter note there have been some outstanding CIC officers I've met here. Guys who are here for the kids and not their egos...like too many are.)

 

[Prototype]

You want to get something out of army cadets that will help you in the Canadian Forces?

Pay attention in map and compass classes

You want to start being a better soldier. Be the one who doesn't get lost.

 

[chriscalow]

, as well as Basic Para which seems easier to get as a cadet than a member of the canadian forces. You want to be more army than that? My  :2c: join the reserves when you come of age.

Really? How many times is this going to come up?  What? Upset because some kid who probably spent the last two years of his life working towards a chance at competing for one of the 50 or so slots on course, out of how many cadets that meet the age across the entire country, got on a course that you didn't?

I'm not even going to waste my time to read your profile.  You have to compete with what? Your platoon? Company at best?  If your unit can't get slots on para courses, then they probably don't require paratroopers... If theydoneed spots, and they just aren't getting offered to you..... Best get up on that chin up bar and work to set yourself up to shine against your mates.

Every time there is a thread on this site re: para, wings, or JTF-2, some putz with an attitude comes on here being all bitter about kids getting the opportunity to strive for something really great.  I can personally attest to the fact that cadet programs offering things such as para, gliding etc, really go a long way with helping at risk youth keep focused and on the right track.  Can't have a problem with that can you?

 

[Snaketnk]

Shooting and section attacks is 0.1% of what it is to be in the army, let alone being a soldier.

Want to put the army back in cadets? Instill discipline, motivation, respect, integrity and competence in them. Far too often I see Cadets walking around the Fredericton mall, in service dress, with headphones in their ears and hands in their pockets and aviators hanging off their shirts. I'm not a D&D stickler but holy crap, maybe have a try at the basics before asking to do section attacks and JTF2 sniper school.

A good majority of the ex-cadets I met in my training VR'd at one point, usually because they realized the real CF isn't just fun ranges and getting free stuff from the government. From ex-cadets I do know, they tell me that the D&D and discipline have gone to shit in recent times.

If you want more army, then try to meet the standards of behavior of the army before asking for the high-speed go's that real infanteers don't even get.

 

[RememberanceDay]

Here in Sea cadets (A little OT) our D&D is horrible. Our instructors try their best, and so do our POs and CPOs, but the NR/OS/AB's just won't listen/pay attention/care. One kid turned up in civvies with out a good explanation (or any) for CD's one night. It's bad! I love the idea of cadets, I love what it stands for and all, but if the newbies won't stand up and at least try.... It's them that make up the majority. We can never get through a class because they're talking/laughing/calling/texting in the back. Oh yes, the instructors try to instill discipline, but when they are still going on at 'room'... There's a MAJOR problem. Most of them are forced by their parents, so they don't give a shit.

 

[the 48th regulator]

When a unit deploys, working with;

The rear party.
Padre.
Military Family Resource Centre
Charitable organizations like Wounded Warrior, and Soldier On.
The local Legion

You want to feel what soldiering is like?  Get the feel of the emotional part.  I have posted twice.  Once talking about the physical challenges involved being in the "Army".  The second, the emotional portion.

Son, there is a hell of a lot more to soldiering, than firing a few rounds down range.

dileas

tess