Murder on a bus !

[Donaill]

What kind of people were on that bus in Edmonton? Cowards... What kind of person would stand by and do nothing, say nothing.... I am appalled. I am only 140 pounds but I will still stand up for myself or for someone else. I just don't "Get it". Does anyone have any incite? 

 

[Trinity]

WTF

for the rest of the world.. can you provide a LINK please
so we can know whats going on.....

In Toronto.. I'm not much up for Edmonton News

 

[Korus]

http://www.mytelus.com/news/article.do?pageID=ab_home&articleID=2195522

 

[Xoshua]

Owen Sound person here...  I'm 150 lbs but I'd still try and help the poor guy...  I wouldn't be able to sit there and watch someone get beat...  It's not right at all...  I hope these kids doing this get put away good and get beat 10 x worse than what they did to that poor guy...  Damn kids...

 

[Springroll]

I wonder how many people here would actually jump into a random fight they happened upon to break it up, or would they just walk away...

I have jumped in to break up fights before and would do it again in an instant...
especially when it is 4 on 1.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Would you guys get involved if you knew it was four teen drug dealers beating up another dealer?

Not saying it was right that people stood by and watched, but when it's young people fighting most people stand back and away because they don't think they should get involved.

Of course they should have helped to break up the fight, especially on a public bus, but I wonder how many people here would actually jump into a random fight they happened upon to break it up, or would they just walk away...

Ok Sherlock,  how would you determine that it was a "dealer"...

What kind of statemnet was that??

dileas

 

[armyvern]

Would you guys get involved if you knew it was four teen drug dealers beating up another dealer?

Not saying it was right that people stood by and watched, but when it's young people fighting most people stand back and away because they don't think they should get involved.

Of course they should have helped to break up the fight, especially on a public bus, but I wonder how many people here would actually jump into a random fight they happened upon to break it up, or would they just walk away...

According to one girl who was on the bus, most of the passengers were young females...she was kicking herself in the butt for not using her cell-phone to call 911.

What gets me the most is hearing the news reports of the suspects first court-room appearance...and the 4 of them laughing throughout the proceedings while their 'cheering section' (young females who should have been in class) looked on. Too bad the news crews only filmed (or at least only broadcast) these young females leaving the courtroom from the rear. They should have broadcast their front views so their parents could identify them and would know where they were...just in case they actually cared.  :

 

[the 48th regulator]

It was an example.

What I'm saying is, young people fight. Alot. Often over drugs etc. I'm young, I went to a crummy high school in a crummy neighbourhood, I know.

Most everyday people will assume that it's just another drug fight or something, and will walk on by. "It's not my problem" or "It's probably about something with drugs" etc etc.

Contrary to what most people say, when they see a fight happening they will stand and watch and no one will intervene. I've seen it first hand when I was swarmed. People watched, no one (actually, thats not true, my friend ran in the school to get the rest of my buddies but by then it was over) helped.

A very poor example, based on negative assumptions.

You would at least pull out a Cel phone and call the cops.  IT might taken 30 minutes for those cops to respond but if the switchboards were lit up, every 911 service would be there in minutes..

dileas

tess

 

[Pea]

It was an example.

What I'm saying is, young people fight. Alot. Often over drugs etc. I'm young, I went to a crummy high school in a crummy neighbourhood, I know.

Most everyday people will assume that it's just another drug fight or something, and will walk on by. "It's not my problem" or "It's probably about something with drugs" etc etc.

Contrary to what most people say, when they see a fight happening they will stand and watch and no one will intervene. I've seen it first hand when I was swarmed. People watched, no one (actually, thats not true, my friend ran in the school to get the rest of my buddies but by then it was over) helped.

The victim was a 35 yr old man, not another teenager. From what I have heard around Edmonton the guy asked the kids to keep it down because they were being unruly on the bus, and the kids got pissy and attacked him. (very much could be rumour, but it is what is being said around here)

I am a 5'2" girl, small by any means, and I would have jumped in the middle of that in a heart beat. It was on a bus, not like they could have drug me off somewhere. People these days that just sit by and watch really frustrate me.  ??? Time to start caring for someone other than ourselves.

 

[Pea]

According to one girl who was on the bus, most of the passengers were young females...she was kicking herself in the butt for not using her cell-phone to call 911.

What gets me the most is hearing the news reports of the suspects first court-room appearance...and the 4 of them laughing throughout the proceedings while their 'cheering section' (young females who should have been in class) looked on. Too bad the news crews only filmed (or at least only broadcast) these young females leaving the courtroom from the rear. They should have broadcast their front views so their parents could identify them and would know where they were...just in case they actually cared.  :

Exactly Vern... IF they cared. Some kids these days. Where are their parents? My Mom visited me a month or so ago (she lives in a town of 500 people) so some things she saw in Edmonton really astound her. We passed a group of probably 16 yr old kids in the middle of a school day. They were smoking, swearing and throwing stuff at traffic passing by. I looked at my Mom for her reaction, and she looked at me and said "Why don't their parents love them?"... I never looked at it this way. I just remember that when I was a child and would get in trouble for things or not be allowed to do something, my Mom would say "It's because we love you"... It all makes sense now.

 

[Korus]

People can say they would jump in, but until you've been in that situation, you can't say what you'll do, you won't know how you'll react.

 

[Pea]

People can say they would jump in, but until you've been in that situation, you can't say what you'll do, you won't know how you'll react.

True... been there done that. I have jumped in once before. I am not one to fight at all. But I would have had to crawl in a hole if I hadn't. Would have been too embarassed at how selfish I had been.

*Not meaning that eveyone who doesn't help is selfish. But in my situaution I knew I would come out ok, so I would have been*

 

[darmil]

I think the driver of the bus should have stepped in to help. But I hear they are not allowed to interfer in an altercation some stupid city rule.I hope the city is changing that.Cause that driver could have saved his life.

 

[Kirkhill]

Actually I don't think it is that difficult to intervene.  I have done so in a couple of instances - admittedly before the first punch got thrown,  at the loud and aggressive stage when the pushing started.

I have never actually had to get involved in a fight.  More a case of just standing up, a short sharp "Oi" to get their attention and then standing there looking as if I intend to stay. (And hoping to God they don't come after me).  At very least you might even up the odds a little. You might even convince a couple of others to stand with you (it happened - kind of a psychological wall has to be broken - people look for the opportunity to do what the know to be the right thing). Most likely they will decide to pipe down and move along (it has also happened).  I guess in 50 years and maybe three instances and no punches I have got lucky.  This could have been the fourth time and you get unlucky.  As a youngster I was less lucky.

On this I agree with Piper - you never know what you are going to do until you are confronted with the situation.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I would make a move to change the situation,

Why,

Because I have done it.  I grew up and lived in the worst neighbourhoods of Toronto, and have been "stupid" enough to have internvened in many of attacks.

Oh well maybe it's me.

dileas

tess

 

[Thompson_JM]

Well Sadly this is nothing New...

the most well known example of bystander syndrome is the kitty genovese story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

the readers digest version taken from Wikipedia:

Catherine Genovese (1935 - March 13, 1964), commonly known as Kitty Genovese, was a New York City woman who was stabbed to death near her home in the Kew Gardens section of Queens, New York. The circumstances of her murder and the apparent action (or inaction) of her neighbors were sensationalized by a newspaper article published two weeks later and prompted investigation into the psychological phenomenon that became known as the bystander effect or Genovese syndrome.

onto bystander effect now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

The bystander effect (also known as bystander apathy) is a psychological phenomenon where persons are less likely to intervene in an emergency situation when others are present than when they are alone. The antonym of the term is civil courage.


The problem with society?

Canadians IMHO are too Damned pacifistic... there are some who would intervene... I think most of the members on this board would have done something to help in some way. but it seems like the majority just would rather not get involed...

regardless of why, its a sad day for his family. I had a freind who was murdered... and there is no closure... ever...

 

[Pea]

regardless of why, its a sad day for his family. I had a freind who was murdered... and there is no closure... ever...

+1 to that! A good friend of mine was stabbed to death at a New Year's party outside of Edmonton in 2003/2004. Was supposed to graduate with us that June. I know we were all hurting that we weren't there to help him in his time of need.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I am saying it is,

Whether it is a physical intervention, a "mobile" intervention, or any oother method...

it is.  As I have done it.

dileas

tess

 

[military granny]

the two worst things about all of this is the 35 minute wait for the cops and his father found out on line not by the EPS

 

[TCBF]

Of course, the media is full of 'needing more money for bus inspectors and staff in the transit command post.'  You see, the driver calls the transit command post - NOT 9-1-1!  Passengers can call 911, the driver CANNOT, otherwise, there would be less need for staff in the transit CP.  NOW do you understand?  It's all about bigger budgets.

"Call 1911A1 for emergency, call 9-1-1 for clean up." may be a good American bumper sticker, in Canada, all you get for 9-1-1 is clean-up.

YOU are responsible for your own defence, not society, not the police.

Live with it.