Navy to potentially create training ships on great lakes

[Master Jack Carter]

It was interesting that the Rush-Bagot Treaty differentiated between Navy and Armed Coast Guard and have apparently continued that distinction even when the Coast Guard has effectively become an inshore navy.

Other countries engage their Coast Guard as an armed division of the Navy as well.

So our issues seem to be derived from our adamantly civilian Coast Guard. And its complete separation from the RCN.

If there was free movement between the Coast Guard, or at least a Patrol section, and the Navy, then it seems to me a bunch of problems would disappear.

Navalize one portion of the Coast Guard for armed patrols and leave the Navaids, science and SAR to the civilians.

Most of the new generation CCG Ships Crew (SC) would love to be operating like the US Coast Guard, but even after the takeover of the Canadian Coast Guard by the Canadian Armed Forces a few months ago, the Ships Officers (SO) who have all gone to the Canadian Coast Guard College, are opposed to military chain of command and military style operations. They mostly do Navigation Aid maintenance, Buoy Repairs and Maintenance at shoreside repair stations, delivering supplies to Manned Lighthouses (an epic waste of taxpayer dollars), sitting around bobbing like a buoy waiting during Search & Rescue (SAR) operations, with the lucky ones getting a chance to support a RCN OP. West Coast send one ship once a year for a few months to break up ice up north, and for CCG Sailors it is like getting a tour of duty overseas on a UN OP, a big thrill for them.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Most of the new generation CCG Ships Crew (SC) would love to be operating like the US Coast Guard, but even after the takeover of the Canadian Coast Guard by the Canadian Armed Forces a few months ago, the Ships Officers (SO) who have all gone to the Canadian Coast Guard College, are opposed to military chain of command and military style operations. They mostly do Navigation Aid maintenance, Buoy Repairs and Maintenance at shoreside repair stations, delivering supplies to Manned Lighthouses (an epic waste of taxpayer dollars), sitting around bobbing like a buoy waiting during Search & Rescue (SAR) operations, with the lucky ones getting a chance to support a RCN OP. West Coast send one ship once a year for a few months to break up ice up north, and for CCG Sailors it is like getting a tour of duty overseas on a UN OP, a big thrill for them.

The Canadian Armed Forces did not take over the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard was moved to DND. DND and CAF are not the same thing and you need to understand the difference.

 

[dapaterson]

And CCG remains a special operating agency.

 

[Kirkhill]

New photo · Wednesday, Dec 3 📸

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photos.app.goo.gl

A bunch of moving pieces all nominally under the auspices of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedess Canada.

Public Safety Canada - Home

Public Safety Canada was created in 2003 to ensure coordination across all federal departments and agencies responsible for national security and the safety of Canadians. Our mandate is to keep Canadians safe from a range of risks such as natural disasters, crime and terrorism.

www.publicsafety.gc.ca

I figure, before the GOC 2 Div gets to grips with what his Continental Div is supposed to do, and what it is supposed to look like, and how to manage the Army's share of 100,000 PRES and 300,000 MRES, somebody needs to shake out this mob.

Once that is done figure out what the Yanks, Northcom, NATO and the RCAF are up to.
Then come to grips with what the Coast Guard and the RCN are doing
Then figure out what CANSOFCOM is contributing.
Then figure out what 3rd (Manoeuvre) Div is contributing Domestically, in the Arctic and Continentally.
Then figure out what 4th (Support) Div plans to supply in ready response resources.
And check in with Health Serevices and the Military Police.

After that life is easy.
All that is necessary is to fall in behind and cover off the blank files with Arctic Response Company Groups, Immediate Reaction Units, Combined Arms Battle Groups and Territorial Battle Groups/Brigades.
And keep track of a few hundred thousand civilians.

Easy money.

.....

Add to that who is a constable, who is a soldier and how big a gun each gets and where and when they are allowed to carry and use them.

...

Then, maybe, we can revisit the issue of marine patrols of inland and border waters.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I was sent this link by my former OIC. A reminder that no matter how good the boat is (and the 44 was a good surf boat) training and judgement is everything. Particularly if the vessel can exceed 18kts.

U.S.Coast Guard 44-foot Motor Lifeboat | 44 MLB... 1997... | Facebook

44 MLB... 1997...

www.facebook.com

 

[quadrapiper]

I think ANCU (NTOG) should be assisting with base security now, if they insist on maintaining this group.

Do they currently act as trainers for the ship's NBPs?

 

[Halifax Tar]

Do they currently act as trainers for the ship's NBPs?

They do.

 

[lenaitch]

Most of the new generation CCG Ships Crew (SC) would love to be operating like the US Coast Guard, but even after the takeover of the Canadian Coast Guard by the Canadian Armed Forces a few months ago, the Ships Officers (SO) who have all gone to the Canadian Coast Guard College, are opposed to military chain of command and military style operations. They mostly do Navigation Aid maintenance, Buoy Repairs and Maintenance at shoreside repair stations, delivering supplies to Manned Lighthouses (an epic waste of taxpayer dollars), sitting around bobbing like a buoy waiting during Search & Rescue (SAR) operations, with the lucky ones getting a chance to support a RCN OP. West Coast send one ship once a year for a few months to break up ice up north, and for CCG Sailors it is like getting a tour of duty overseas on a UN OP, a big thrill for them.

If younger CG members are eager to operate like a branch of the military (aka USCG), one wonders why they didn't join the military in the first place.

Which part is the "epic waste of taxpayer dollars"; having staffed lighthouses or having the CCG supply them?

 

[Haggis]

If younger CG members are eager to operate like a branch of the military (aka USCG), one wonders why they didn't join the military in the first place.

Because CCG is unionized?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Most of the new generation CCG Ships Crew (SC) would love to be operating like the US Coast Guard, but even after the takeover of the Canadian Coast Guard by the Canadian Armed Forces a few months ago, the Ships Officers (SO) who have all gone to the Canadian Coast Guard College, are opposed to military chain of command and military style operations. They mostly do Navigation Aid maintenance, Buoy Repairs and Maintenance at shoreside repair stations, delivering supplies to Manned Lighthouses (an epic waste of taxpayer dollars), sitting around bobbing like a buoy waiting during Search & Rescue (SAR) operations, with the lucky ones getting a chance to support a RCN OP. West Coast send one ship once a year for a few months to break up ice up north, and for CCG Sailors it is like getting a tour of duty overseas on a UN OP, a big thrill for them.

Where are you getting that from? I certainly don't pick up that vibe on the west coast.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Why are military personnel engaged in work that could be managed by civilian contractors?

It's almost entirely PS, DCC and contractors, but there are military people within RPOPs and ADM(IE), just like ADM(Mat).

 

[DBNSG]

The Canadian Armed Forces did not take over the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard was moved to DND. DND and CAF are not the same thing and you need to understand the difference.

Oh they will be the same thing in Time.

 

[Cloud Cover]

You all need to Fess Up…

 

[Kirkhill]

If we want to get cool pictures, MRRBs would fit the bill nicely, and we already have them. The RHIBs used for boarding are every bit as "speedboat" as the CB90, and are also designed to actually come alongside ships at sea.

If we want to train NWOs in bridge management and ship handling, buying a bunch of CB90s won't help. The skills to operate them are going to be quite different from operating CPFs, AOPVs, etc...

If the CAF/RCN had a practical role for the CB90, I think they'd be a cool tool in the toolbox.

The Koreans seem to differ

The Korean Fast Assault Craft - a CB90 plussed up
18m vs 16.3m

ROK Marine Corps launches its First Fast Assault Craft - Naval News

The ROK Marine Corps has launched its first-ever Fast Assault Craft, marking a historic milestone since the service’s establishment

www.navalnews.com

"Compared to the legacy Rigid Inflatable Boats (RIBs) currently in service, the new platform is designed as a dedicated combat vessel, offering higher speed, improved protection, and significantly enhanced firepower. "

"approximately 18 meters in length and 4 meters in beam. The vessel is equipped with 12.7mm Remote Controlled Weapon Stations (RCWS), two K-16 machine guns (7.62mm x 51mm) enabling the delivery of effective firepower while enhancing crew survivability. Propulsion is provided by a waterjet system capable of achieving a maximum speed of up to 45 knots, while maintaining high maneuverability in shallow-water environments."

"To further enhance survivability, ballistic protection has been applied to key areas of the vessel to protect both the crew and embarked assault troops. The HCB also features dedicated sections for deploying small inflatable boats, as well as ramps that allow Marines to rapidly disembark during amphibious or littoral operations.

"With the acquisition of the Fast Assault Craft, the ROK Marine Corps expects to conduct faster, safer, and more efficient quick-reaction operations in the forward areas of the Five West Sea Islands compared to relying solely on Rigid Inflatable Boats (RIBs). The new platform is also expected to be employed in amphibious operations, including missions aimed at securing and establishing beachheads in contingency scenarios."

 

[Kirkhill]

Query: Is the CB90 stable on the high seas?

AI Response:

Yes, the CB90 is considered stable and highly seaworthy on the high seas and in rough conditions. While originally optimized for shallow coastal waters, its design allows it to operate effectively in open water environments.

Key Factors in the CB90's Stability and Seaworthiness

Proven Design: The CB90 has a robust, all-aluminum hull design that provides stability and the ability to handle harsh conditions. The hull shape is sometimes referred to as a "gull wing" or "tunnel ram" design.

Optimal Center of Gravity: The engine placement and overall design of the boat (especially in newer HSM variants) optimize the point of gravity, enhancing stability even at high speeds.

Operational History: The vessel has a proven track record in various open water missions globally. The Swedish Navy, for example, has deployed CB90s in Somali waters (Gulf of Aden and Indian Ocean) for anti-piracy operations, demonstrating its capability far from shore.

Agility and Maneuverability: Its unique twin water jet propulsion system and underwater control surfaces allow for exceptional agility and sharp turns, which can be used for high-speed evasive maneuvers in challenging environments.

Advanced Systems (HSM Variant): Newer versions of the CB90, such as the CB90HSM, feature modern stabilization systems for their weapon stations and sensors, ensuring high accuracy and crew comfort regardless of the boat's motion in the water.

Operational Range: The boat has an operational range of up to 300 nautical miles, allowing it to undertake extended missions away from shore.