Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
- Reaction score
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- Points
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I still like to see a MCDV replacement for 1/2 the hulls in nearly the same size with a focus on Mine Clearance and Route Survey. The other half can be a fast OPV.
In a perfect world, 6 minesweepers, 6 corvettes, 15 destroyers, 6 arctic capable patrol ships, 12 attack subs and a smattering of supply ships. Throw in some kind of amphibious assault ship like a mistral-class and man, the RCN becomes a wicked middle-power bluewater and littoral navy. I for one welcome a world-respected RCN.I still like to see a MCDV replacement for 1/2 the hulls in nearly the same size with a focus on Mine Clearance and Route Survey. The other half can be a fast OPV.
Both can be done from any ship with a crane or better yet, both can be done with a USV/UUV. No ship required, just a place to launch, recover and control. This goes back to my comment about capabilities not platforms. CSC mission bay could launch the route survey drone and carry on, no MCDV replacement necessary. AOPS as well.Mine Clearance and Route Survey
Amphib not necessary. The rest of the list is just fine without completely changing doctrine and focus for little return. The effort put into an amphib could be much better spent on other capabilities or bulking ones we would have.In a perfect world, 6 minesweepers, 6 corvettes, 15 destroyers, 6 arctic capable patrol ships, 12 attack subs and a smattering of supply ships. Throw in some kind of amphibious assault ship like a mistral-class and man, the RCN becomes a wicked middle-power bluewater and littoral navy. I for one welcome a world-respected RCN.
My only concern would be with 6 mine clearance vessels and 6 fast OPV's, it basically means that you get 3 of each on each coast, which in turn means you'll only 1 of each class on each coast available at any one time. Occasionally you might be able to 'surge' to 2 of each class available on 1 coast, maybe, just maybe on 2 coasts once in a blue moon.I still like to see a MCDV replacement for 1/2 the hulls in nearly the same size with a focus on Mine Clearance and Route Survey. The other half can be a fast OPV.
It gets us 1 OPV and 1 MCM platform on each coast, in addition to CSCs and AOPVs to conduct whatever mission the GoC wants us to do.If that's the case, having available 1 mine clearance vessel and 1 OPV on the East or West Coast get us what exactly?
Is there no room in RCN doctrine for strategic troop lift? The ability to project power would certainly help us out in NATO's eyes.Amphib not necessary. The rest of the list is just fine without completely changing doctrine and focus for little return. The effort put into an amphib could be much better spent on other capabilities or bulking ones we would have.
I will disagree, since we will always be an expeditionary Army and Navy, some sort of low threat amphibious capability is going to be needed. Not to mention that amphibious support capability along with AOR support, can buy us a lot of goodwill with our allies.Both can be done from any ship with a crane or better yet, both can be done with a USV/UUV. No ship required, just a place to launch, recover and control. This goes back to my comment about capabilities not platforms. CSC mission bay could launch the route survey drone and carry on, no MCDV replacement necessary. AOPS as well.
Amphib not necessary. The rest of the list is just fine without completely changing doctrine and focus for little return. The effort put into an amphib could be much better spent on other capabilities or bulking ones we would have.
MH-60 enters the discussion...We would eventually need to stand up a marine transport helicopter squadron as well to maximise those capabilities.
Strategic Troop lift isn't done by Amphibs. It's done by planes and cruise liners. Amphibs are for amphibious operations. And its not RCN doctrine, its Army doctrine. And the Army has absolutely no interest in doing amphibious operations (as Gen Hillier found out despite his interest in the concept). This is a casualty of the way we have structured our commands in Canada.Is there no room in RCN doctrine for strategic troop lift? The ability to project power would certainly help us out in NATO's eyes.
I'd rather see 18 CSC's and 12 subs, 10 'corvettes' (with more than a 2-4 50 Cals' on them) and 4 AOR's. Give the AOPS to the CCG. Skip the Mistral like ship(s).Strategic Troop lift isn't done by Amphibs. It's done by planes and cruise liners. Amphibs are for amphibious operations. And its not RCN doctrine, its Army doctrine. And the Army has absolutely no interest in doing amphibious operations (as Gen Hillier found out despite his interest in the concept). This is a casualty of the way we have structured our commands in Canada.
RCN is directed to support forces ashore as a task. And we can do HADR operations and minor unopposed troop movement with AOPS and JSS. That's the extent of it. And I think that's a pretty good place to be.
Amphib is gloriously expensive, difficult and should only be developed IF we have a strategic requirement for it. Which we decidedly do not. I prefer to focus on getting the core need to have capabilities correct before branching out into nice to have capabilities. Amphib is a big jump.
If we were going to spend that kind of effort and money in the RCN look at an Arsenal ships, domestic submarines, more helicopters, drone carriers, UUV's etc...
I think any ship can use the current AUV's we have however why risk a high value asset like a CSC in a MDA. We are also getting new kit such as the Sea Fox so a purpose built or smaller ship would probably be better.Both can be done from any ship with a crane or better yet, both can be done with a USV/UUV. No ship required, just a place to launch, recover and control. This goes back to my comment about capabilities not platforms. CSC mission bay could launch the route survey drone and carry on, no MCDV replacement necessary. AOPS as well.
Amphib not necessary. The rest of the list is just fine without completely changing doctrine and focus for little return. The effort put into an amphib could be much better spent on other capabilities or bulking ones we would have.
A couple of hundred million and you would have all the sealift capability you would ever want.Is there no room in RCN doctrine for strategic troop lift? The ability to project power would certainly help us out in NATO's eyes.
Mistrals have left the building....We didn't get them when we could of for a steal and it was for good reason.A good chunk of our missions for the RCN seem to be dealing with lower threat adversaries, such as piracy. A Mistral would provide a lot of support to a task group on that sort of mission, even without using the amphib element. Till we increase our own helicopter support, you could embark helicopters from another nation.
Instant bliss for who? you? I hope you wished for the sudden influx of personnel we would need to actually pull that off. We can get creative with how we normally crew the ships.I'd rather see 18 CSC's and 12 subs, 10 'corvettes' (with more than a 2-4 50 Cals' on them) and 4 AOR's. Give the AOPS to the CCG. Skip the Mistral like ship(s).
Having 3 CSC's on patrol and a pair of subs on each coast in the water would go along way in keeping the Americans at bay. Throw in a pair Corvettes of anti-narc patrols in the Carrib and south of Baja and voila, instant bliss.
We didn't get them because the government of the day went into a snap election, if they hadn't, it's very likley we would have gotten them, as this was the time the 280's were self-divesting, it would not have been a huge PY hit. Those ones were ice strengthened as I recall and the major issue would be reworking the hotel plugs down to 120v and switching the combat systems. It is amusing to think the Egyptians have ice strengthened vessels.Mistrals have left the building....We didn't get them when we could of for a steal and it was for good reason.