ICE Pact was signed for a reason. Not to mention speed is probably more important at this point. Hence whey the even read Davie into the NSS in the first place. More capacity.
Lots of ideas, pretty sure none will come to pass. There's a lot of enthusiasm around the idea that the CMC will solve our training, retention, and force generation challenges but we need to temper that with a reality check.Personally, I see the corvettes not as a problem, but rather as a solution, both to training and retention.
First of all, just like the type 31 in the UK is built at a faster rate than the type 26, the CMC ought to have a construction rate that is much higher than the RCD. There are many reasons for that, from the size difference to differences in engineering sophistication - while they would have quieting measures, for instance, they would not need to be the ultra-quiet vessels that the RCD will be; for another instance, they would likely only have twin diesel engines driving two separate shafts with VP screws, a much simpler engineering plant that is faster to build, etc. etc.
If the GoC moves fast, we could see the first in the water and going through acceptance trial in three years, with a new on coming on line every year after that. We all know that this (3 to4 years from now) is about the time when the worst off HAl's will start to self retire. For every HAl that "retires", you can man two corvettes and still free up 30 to 40 sailors to have (1) more instructors, or (2) more shore posting time, or (3) more time for their own next level training. Any of these possibilities helps make the sea/shore ration better and help with retention.
Moreover, you now have two ships instead of one on which to train junior officers to become watchkeepers, MS and PO2 engineers to become EOOW, and to give an first crack to junior LT's, PO2, PO1 at being heads of department in much less demanding environment. you now also have two platforms for senior LCDR's and junior C2 to become CO or CERA for the first time and see if they fit the bill for later employment in the RCD's or remaining HAL.
Finally, and here I sincerely hope that CRCN would make sure to "sell" these corvettes to the government as vessels meant for the defense of Canadian waters, because then, they could help with retention by going back to the type of sailing schedule we used to have in the 70's /early 80's. In those days (for those who weren't there) on either coast, about 75% of the fleet would sail at some point of the morning on Mondays, only to go to our exercise area - exercise and then - be back alongside around noon on Fridays. Maybe three or four times a year, you would do an extended cruise of two or three weeks for a NATO or US exercise, or once or twice in your career, a 6 month deployment to the NATO Ready Group. So on a sea posting, you were still back home for the week end 40 to 45 times a year. Compare that to the current deployment cycle of HAL's and other fleet units and tell me that it wouldn't help with retention!
As more corvettes would come on line and help with this expansion of trained personnel and retention, the RCD's would start to come on line and be able to be manned with personnel trained up in the corvettes. The expansion of the fleet and of the number of trained personnel would proceed at a reasonable pace because of the availability of these little ships and their restrained use in Canadian waters mostly.
considering they were only going to order a single heavy in the first place, there seems to be a misplaced sense of priorities here. Have they even started construction of a new hall or refurbishment of the old to accommodate new construction/techniques? Davie has been gung-ho for acquiring off-shore resources, possibly paid for by Canadian dollars but I haven't read a lot of news about developments in Quebec. am I wrong?
Yes they are upgrading their yard. I suspect that they don't have the trained pers to do the hull, hence part of the build in Finland. I'm not against this concept, Finland are global icebreaking experts, but I would have preferred a fully in Canada capability.
I've heard that Helsinki will do something like 30% of the work on their Polar Icebreaker and the majority of the work will be done by Davie however, Davie isn't exactly known for being open and honest about their made in Canada levels except when they are looking for funds. I've also heard there might be a lot more work done overseas than 30% as well. They loved to brag about Asterix being "made in Canada" when its a foreign built ship that had its superstructure built in Finland to the tune of something like $90m-$130m CAD.
Well they did this with Asterix when they did the conversion. Had the house built overseas as they stated they didn't have the expertise although I suspect it was a matter of getting the ship built sooner proclaiming built on time and those lease fees starting sooner. I find it hard to believe they don't have skilled labor there to build a hull. I suspect its a gambit to normalize getting parts for all their builds in that shiny new to them shipyard in Finland.
Location, location, location
Ships are steel boxes in salt water; they always need maintenance. There is a reason even museum ships need occasional docking.
Asterix wasn't part of NSS, and as a lease was exempt from the 'Build in Canada' policy and associated IRBs/ITBs.
Mostly Quebec, some from Export Development. See article in CDR: Davie and Pearlson Partner on Québec Facility Upgrade for Canada’s Heavy Icebreaker and Hybrid Ferry Construction - Canadian Defence Review.
I agree, I know some of those NWO's, sailed with one of them. Honestly I do hope it comes to pass to take some of the pressure off the AOPV's which will only increase with the Kingston Class being mostly "tied up".
I'm going to see that first hand in Dec when we take Harry Dewolf out of refit in Dec.
Yes knew about not being part of the NSS. My point is that they clearly see the advantage of bringing in "outside" help to speed up builds.
Which is a good thing in my opinion.
Unlike Davie’s polar icebreaker which is a one off civilian vessel the RCD is a complex, front line combatant with high integration demands, and significant classified systems. Outsourcing major components of that build overseas, as Davie has done for its hull modules, simply isn’t a viable or responsible option for a RCN warship.
Its interesting that you pointed to not exporting major components. US is doing all the AEGIS work initially. For the shore based facility. That will be moved (or mirrored) at Athabaskan so that we have a soveriegn capability here to do our own AEGIS work. I suspect there will still be a lot of ties back to New Jersey though.
Sorry, I think I meant to the same reply you had replied to.
