New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Understood.

There is a Navy way.
There is a Coast Guard way.

The Coast Guard doesn't even have a Cost Guard way. The sailors come from the various merchant academy or directly from the ranks of merchant seaman. The officers come either from one of the various Marine officers colleges of Canada, which produce merchant seamen, or from the Coast Guard College in Sidney, which has a curriculum of merchant marine seamanship. No training or personnel development goes on on their ship other than through osmosis for the various specific Coast Guard tasks such as ice breaking, S.A.R. and Buoy work. Their approach is totally merchant seaman like.

Many years ago (around 1980-90), the Navy tried for the nth time to see if they could entice merchant navy officers, either with watch-keeping qualifications or master qualifications to do some "cross-training" with the naval reserve and be commissioned in the reserve forces of Canada. With very few exceptions (I am only aware of two successful candidates), it was a complete failure. The two approaches to running ships were simply incompatible. There was simply too much to "unlearn" before they could operate in our environment.

It's not a bad reflection on the merchant navy, nor on the RCN. It's just that throughout the second world war and even more thereafter, navies have evolved so far away from merchant navies due to the introduction of complex power plants, intricate communications systems (internal and external), advanced combat tactics and systems, including ESM, ECM, ISR systems, under water systems and environment, etc. As a result, it is easier to take someone off the street and teach that person within this naval environment from the start rather than take someone who qualified as a merchant officer and suddenly expect him/her to discard the approach he/she learned and mastered on top of acquiring all the extraneous stuff that makes a naval officer.

 

[Stoker]

First of all, the coast guard would have to learn how the Navy performs many of its seamanship tasks, along with battle damage control procedures etc. The Navy already has that organized, and it functions very well. I wouldn’t mess with that as handing it to the Coast Guard accomplishes very little that doesn’t already exist and functions quite well.

Second edit: are we even sure the RCN is welcoming to having a second maritime fleet within DND?

Their training in everything is similar but also different to a point. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable having sailors trained by the CG, just the same I'm sure they wouldn't be either. That being said perhaps an opportunity of embedding sailors from both services to see how we and them conduct business is in order. Interestingly enough we are standing up a working group with the CG on how we do DC, as the way they do DC is quite different compared to ours.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Embedding people from one organization to the other is always a good idea: it provides a different perspective on things and both sides can learn a few things of value to bring back to their own organization.

IIRC, we embedded RCN personnel with the CG in the Arctic in the lead up to the entry in service of the AOPS to acquire a knowledge base in ice-breaking and ice precautions.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I have no idea what the Coast Guard does for training. Colin does. It seems to be much different in approach but perhaps even in theory since the Coast Guard doesn’t necessarily plan on being torpedoed or struck by missiles, or both at the same time, while making plans to maneuver the ship, launch counter strikes and get back underway at all costs. Maybe, but I doubt it.

Training for deckhands is limited. You have the bog standard courses every merchant sailor takes, which is about 3 weeks worth fire, marine emergency and bridge watchman. The west coast CCG tried running a week long training session and that worked for a few years and included all the required Fed gov courses (harrassment, diversity, etc. Then courses on river rescue, first aid, etc. The only other organized courses are RHIB training at Bamfield, for 1 week and if you are lifeboat man, you may get sent down to Cape Disappointment to take surf training with the USCCG. Otherwise it is all on the job. Also CCG crews are much smaller, 45 people for a ship of the same tonnage as the Halifax Class.

 

[Czech_pivo]

This country is doomed the way its going anyways. Elbows up!

Why so fatalist?

Without hope there is nothing.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Their training in everything is similar but also different to a point. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable having sailors trained by the CG, just the same I'm sure they wouldn't be either. That being said perhaps an opportunity of embedding sailors from both services to see how we and them conduct business is in order. Interestingly enough we are standing up a working group with the CG on how we do DC, as the way they do DC is quite different compared to ours.

Are we brining back the Hull Techs?

 

[Stoker]

Are we brining back the Hull Techs?

No, what we are doing specialized DC training and structures. The only ones lucky enough to get there trades back or at least a semblance of is the MARTECH's and the Electricians.

 

[Stoker]

Embedding people from one organization to the other is always a good idea: it provides a different perspective on things and both sides can learn a few things of value to bring back to their own organization.

IIRC, we embedded RCN personnel with the CG in the Arctic in the lead up to the entry in service of the AOPS to acquire a knowledge base in ice-breaking and ice precautions.

I know and we've trying to break them of some of that coast guard mentality every since that got back into the fleet I'm talking more about the Jr Folks. I think there's value in doing that.

 

[suffolkowner]

Grass aint always greener in national shipbuilding projects. The USN just killed the Constellation-class. Maybe we can build them some Rivers for a fee of course

https://nitter.net/SECNAV/status/1993406826520756327#m

Is the type 26 and the RCN version of it close enough to USN standards to require minimal changes?

 

[Stoker]

Is the type 26 and the RCN version of it close enough to USN standards to require minimal changes?

If only we built that second Irving yard in Saint John for increased production of the RCD. Perhaps staff it with Czech Pivos foreign workers.