New CF Fitness Policies Coming

[Armymedic]

Come on. What evidence do you have that people there were trying to get out of xpress testing?

ancedotal evidence of people coming in to use the medical system as an excuse to get out of everything and anything...Hmm let me see what I can get for you.

How about I make this easy...
Yes it happens. More often then you think. Easier now as civilian practitioners are easier to snow.

 

[Armymedic]

No, but getting medically excused for a period of time to get ones self in shape to pass the express test is more reasonable than first failing and having to deal with the repercussions.

Unfortunately, not correct. You can only be medically excused if you are hurt  or injured (everyone knows the difference between hurt and injured...hurt is weakness, injured means you unable to continue, and need time to heal). If you are fit full duties, then you shall do and pass the PT test or face the repercussions.

If a peer or subordinate repetitively seems to get the chit for 7 days 2-3 days before testing...then now it is a chain of command issue and you need to address this administratively after you discuss this situation with the medical staff supporting you.

And as a supervisor, get some nuts, and put that down on the PDR as an area of development and use it to screw said lackie into doing their job. There is no excuse for not meeting standards.

 

[mgreer]

Is this fair though?  Can being out of shape actually be considered a medical condition?  If soldiers are permitted to be medically exempt from the test until they are in a position where they can pass it, doesn't that defeat the whole discipline/punishment side of the order? 

That was my point.

 

[orange.paint]

"I believe" that being overweight is considered a "sickness".To keep this person from being offended (because i care  ;D )I'll keep details breif.

That person couldn't complete their BFT x 2.
failed the beep test x 2
administration action taken to release the member.
member got civilian lawyer fought and won.
Getting booted or has been booted for something else. >

anyone in the unit I was with will know who I'm talking about.

This was quite the post around the time of the canforgen but seems to have died.Anyone actually seen anything implemented in individual units?Everything looks the exact same to me in my unit here in gagetown.

I believe it was said before or on another post but bring back the warriors badge....I'm like a crow...SHINEY!!!!!I brought up to some superior people about P.T being a PO/EO on courses not the usual NA. I got the usual political mumbles that actually didn't answer my question and of course I heard "fit to fight" "legality" "policy" but all in all I again didn't change the world.

Something I must add is I rarely go to the base hospital (unless parts are missing or hanging off).But I have had usually not a problem,maybe because my file is small and full of juicy accidents like dislocations ,mad cow, etc.I find these guys professional,and just to compare civi-side I had a MRI and a brain scan in 4 days, while my father-inlaw waited 7 months for a MRI.

 

[GO!!!]

No, but getting medically excused for a period of time to get ones self in shape to pass the express test is more reasonable than first failing and having to deal with the repercussions.

Why are those people out of shape in the first place?

What would be "reasonable" is to punish the lazy for their sloth, as they deserve, and then have them get back into shape.

How about a different example: Cpl Bloggins, a cook, is unable to chop carrots properly. As a result, using your logic, he should be excused duties until he (supposedly) works on his chopping skills, until he can pass the carrot chopping PO. More likely, he will take the time to play playstation and muck around on army.ca, and not get any better at all.

If troops are unable to pass the express test, they should face draconian punishments.

1) Mandatory move back into single quarters, with mandatory PT for 2+ hours daily.
2) Pay is frozen at their present rank and IPC - if you are too unfit to do the job, you are too unfit to get a raise.
3) Enforced low cal meals, to ensure that the subject loses weight.
4) Re-asessment of PT standard after 60 days. You pass, great, go home and order a pizza - and remember what happens when you fail....

 

[mgreer]

Why are those people out of shape in the first place?

What would be "reasonable" is to punish the lazy for their sloth, as they deserve, and then have them get back into shape.

How about a different example: Cpl Bloggins, a cook, is unable to chop carrots properly. As a result, using your logic, he should be excused duties until he (supposedly) works on his chopping skills, until he can pass the carrot chopping PO. More likely, he will take the time to play playstation and muck around on army.ca, and not get any better at all.

If troops are unable to pass the express test, they should face draconian punishments.

I agree totally, unfortunately you've taken my sarcastic reply to a previous post out of context.  Here's the thread.

Quote from: rifleman on January 25, 2006, 12:40:03
Getting a chit for a year so you don't have to take an Xpress Test is a lot different than getting one for a day's run. That in itself has career implications.  What you gave wasn't evidence just supposition. end qoute

(my reply) No, but getting medically excused for a period of time to get ones self in shape to pass the express test is more reasonable than first failing and having to deal with the repercussions. end quote.

I was trying to imply that this is the extent that some will go to, to get around the test. 

Mike

 

[pbi]

Roger all so far, but again the real goal has to be a change of mentality. Why do people want to be out of shape, overweight and lazy in the first place? Why do they accept looking like a slob in uniform? This will, IMHO, only be changed by leadership and setting an example, combined with building an atmosphere in the whole CF, not just a few operational field units, that we are about readiness, fitness and proud of it. Then you will see self-policing kick in. While this may sound like naive "boy scout" stuff to some, IMHO it is exactly what the CDS is doing (he sets a personal example, by the way...) and what all of the leaders under him need to do as well. (And this is where part of the problem lies, IMHO). Punishment is definitely a part of the equation, but only where leadership has failed to exert a useful motivating influence. In fact, I wonder if instead of wasting time punishing people who want to treat military service like a McJob, we should just boot them.

Cheers

 

[Journeyman]

Punishment is definitely a part of the equation, but only where leadership has failed to exert a useful motivating influence. In fact, I wonder if instead of wasting time punishing people who want to treat military service like a McJob, we should just boot them.

And perhaps THAT is where the problem lies. As we increasingly civilianize the military, through "rights trump obligations," contracting/alternate-service-delivery, et al, we actively encourage the McJob mindset.

Spending time wandering the combat arms' lines in Edmonton, Petawawa, and Valcatraz, one gets a feeling of an almost "war-footing" mentality that is simply not present anywhere else in the CF.

Avoiding fitness is just one more manifestation of the 'warrior vs. McJob' problem, IMO. (I can't use "IMHO," since my opinions are seldom "humble"    )

 

[foerestedwarrior]

I wonder if there is some way to try and get some CBT arms PT guys out to other bases to run the PT. It would force that Warrior aspect into their PT.

 

[orange.paint]

Man that would be a nice posting!
Your job will be running these guys into the ground!ahhh to dream!
I have to agree with everyone of the last posts.Our problem is that we are a window into canadian culture hippies,coke heads,and yes obese people.And until we tweek human rights to our favour we will never get rid of these people.It almost seems the youth of today are obsessed with easy money and the"me" attitude,not "us".

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
It almost seems the youth of today are obsessed with easy money and the"me" attitude,not "us".

Thats because they are, but then who's fault is that? It goes back to what PBI said, leadership by example. My kids see a 45 year old man working out regularly, playing hockey and volleyball, guess what they WANT to do?...........leadership comes in many ways, not just at work.

 

[foerestedwarrior]

Quote,
It almost seems the youth of today are obsessed with easy money and the"me" attitude,not "us".

Thats because they are, but then who's fault is that? It goes back to what PBI said, leadership by example. My kids see a 45 year old man working out regularly, playing hockey and volleyball, guess what they WANT to do?...........leadership comes in many ways, not just at work.

I LOVE doing sports and stuff, geuse what? My parents are the same way and always have been. My friends that sit around inside and watch tv all the time, thats what there parents do.....mmmm I think you are onto something...

 

[orange.paint]

I say send them all to rural newfoundland....10km hike to the store,4 km to the mailbox's(in someones kitchen).Maybe it has to do with city culture also where parents are afraid to let their kids roam free due to the sick individuals in the world.I know growing up me mudder would pack a lunch and I would be gone all day checking snares,cracking open other kids heads with rocks,swimming etc.

Prime example is the shacks.I'm no TI JOE Ive only been in going on 7 yrs but when we were in the shacks we all went camping and party's constantly.If you walk through the shacks on duty now,all you'll find is people on keyboards,eating chips.Now don't get me wrong, drinking like a fish for years on end wasn't great but just goes to show we had more "us" attitude.

As I said before we are a window into Canadian culture.

 

[Lou-Dog]

I'm so glad that somebody in a leadership position had the backbone to up the CF's physical standards.
It's about bloody time somebody did something.

I can not tell yo how frustrating it was to be a Jr NCM and run PT. The majority of the Warrants in my squadron would "lead from the rear" as they fell out of my brisk 5-6km runs.....and curse my name into the ground for giving the soldiers such a good challenge.

But then again, those are the type of people who joined the CF for "jobs". Maybe they should have applied to McDonalds instead.

Looks like somebody is trying to make the CF a gung-ho place to be.....Good Job!!!

 

[Armymedic]

Perhaps it is a societal issue after all...
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060213/baby_boomer_060213/20060213?hub=Health

Canadian baby boomers retiring in bad shape

CTV.ca News Staff
 
Updated: Mon. Feb. 13 2006 5:11 PM ET

The Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada is warning that rising obesity rates and inactivity among baby boomers could be threatening years of steady progress on heart health.

"It was shocking to find that the rates of obesity in baby boomers have soared by nearly 60 per cent and a staggering 52 per cent are inactive," Dr. Beth Abramson, foundation spokesperson and cardiologist told CTV.ca.

Yet 80 per cent still think they will enjoy a longer life expectancy than previous generations, the foundation reports in its annual report card on heart health.

Abramson adds that baby boomers, or those who are between 45 and 60, are less fit and more overweight than today's seniors.

For example, 30 per cent of baby boom respondents are obese, in contrast with 24 per cent of seniors.

Furthermore, 52 per cent of baby boomers surveyed lead a sedentary lifestyle, while 50 per cent of seniors are inactive.

Abramson says several factors could account for these contrasts.

"This baby boomer generation was one of the first generation used to having cars and modern technology and perhaps have led a relatively privileged life and perhaps are falsely reassured with access to good health care," she said.

If they don't take preventative steps, she warns, "baby boomers may be the first generation to turn back the clock and experience a decline in the quality of life."

According to the study, population estimates show the number of Canadians in their 60s will jump by 50 per cent over the next 10 years.

Even more worrisome, the study's authors note, about one-quarter of health care practitioners in Canada are baby boomers themselves, getting set to retire -- or possibly get sick themselves.

"Our heart health crunch may very well become a heart health crisis," Abramson said.

Still, there is some good news, Abramson said. Only 21 per cent of baby boomers are smokers these days versus 29 per cent a decade ago.

The report, which draws data from the Canadian Community Health Survey of 2003-04, is a follow-up to the foundation's first report card on the heart health of the baby boom generation 10  years ago.

According to the foundation, about 1.3 million or 21 per cent of Canada baby boomers have already been diagnosed with heart disease, stroke or high blood pressure.

The foundation is hoping this study will serve as a "call to action" not only to baby boomers but to the federal government.

The foundation is calling on Ottawa to:

Deliver on the commitments made during the election campaign to support physical activity and healthy eating.
Commit to further tax incentives that will encourage physical activity and healthy eating
Ensure the recommendations from the Trans Fat Task Force that outlines ways to reduce processed trans fats in Canadian foods are implemented

 

[ZipperHead]

It's good to see this thread restarted (without someone whinging about how they are upset that The Man is making them do PT again).

I have noticed that the amount of people doing PT has increased dramatically here in Gagtown (which kind of sucks, as it makes for horrendous parking and crowded facilities, but that's better than the ghost town it used to be). However (there's always a "however" with me  ) it seems that there are many pers just going through the motions, as though just wandering around the track for 20 minutes is going to take them from El Tubbo to Chuck Norris stature (on a total tangent: what is it with everyone worshipping Chuck lately?) in 2 solid weeks of walking. It might work to keep Grandma in fighting trim (fighting off other grandmas at the bingo hall, anyway), but certainly not enough to get a soldier fit to fight. Or maybe I have it all wrong, where I am sweating like a whore in church, and out of breath at the end of my workout.

I'm not sure how much the "lead by example" and cultural change (PT culture) aspect is going to help those pers that are more prone to sloth than sit-ups. I think the administrative version of a boot in the nuts with a frozen mukluk (i.e pay frozen, restrictive diet, and I am very fond of the idea of moving people back into the shacks (although they may have build a shitload of shacks to accomodate the number of pers they would have to do this to)) is what is going to be needed to kickstart change. I do believe in changing the culture and leading by example, but I'm enough of a cynic to know that unless they kick it draconian stylie, it will be a case of the fit getting fitter, and the fat getting fatter (haven't used that line in a while).

Al

 

[George Wallace]

Gee Allan?  First you're complaining that there aren't enough people doing PT.  Now, you're complaining that they are, but not to Olympic standards (well....your standards.).  Will you ever be happy?

;D

 

[orange.paint]

Heres my idea for morning P.T.

1 1/2 hr every morning (not including stretching and parade)

ALL broken people will attend in combats to either direct traffic, time events, or count.This will give them a purpose between 7h00- 8h30.

Everyone is left to do a certain task at their own pace.For example today we will do 10km.It is a timed event which will be recorded.Times will be posted up in hanger lines to promote healthy competition and embarrassment.This way everyone can see either improvement or downhill spiral into fattown.When the fit guys finish early they can carry on with their own PT.

It also allows people to push themselves to reach personal goals outside of the 23 minute 5km.I absolutely despise running at that half walk thing we seem to do on every sqn run.No benefit to the fit.

Also when a weekly PT summary comes out and Tpr/Pte bloggins is dead last on everything, some bells and whistles will go off and there is the documented proof.
Sometimes the big green machine needs the paperwork,here it is.

Bring back rewards.If a member is extremely fit its obvious that he puts his own time and effort into it after the working hours.Allow these soldiers to do their own weekly training during sqn PT periods.Have them come on mandatory runs etc but allow them to carry on with whats working for them.

 

[ZipperHead]

It also allows people to push themselves to reach personal goals outside of the 23 minute 5km.I absolutely despise running at that half walk thing we seem to do on every sqn run.No benefit to the fit.

You and me both. I have the luxury now (due to rank and place of work) to do my own thing, but when I was a Cpl, I bitched about the slow pace, and was told "Do PT on your own time if this is too slow!!". Well, Einstein, I did PT on my own time, which made the Sqn pace even slower (by my standards). Sometimes you just can't win.

Here's some advice rcac_011: Write a memo asking to do a PT program of your own design, etc. Back it up with trg advice or plans from PSP staff. Odds are you will be allowed to do it (although it involves paperwork). Or get thyself onto the Cabot Trail Relay team (just looked at where you are posted, as per profile). As it is a School team, you get the leeway to do the team PT program (HQ Sqn OC is team captain, so no worries there) and your CoC is compelled to comply. It's a good go, if running about 15km over hilly ground in Cape Breton is your idea of a good go. I've done it 2 years, and I'm doing it again this year. You don't have to be a fast runner (only have to maintain a 6 min/km pace), and the training advice you receive (from PSP and other runners) is valuable. PM me if interested.

Al

 

[Long in the tooth]

I must confess that after leaving the Infantry 10 years ago I put on half a ton of weight.  Now that I've failed an Expres test PT is no longer a luxury I have to sqeeze time in for, but a command performance parade.  In three months I've taken half the weight off.  I like it.  "If you're not deployable you're not employable".