New CF Fitness Policies Coming

[Franko]

Back on topic troops....

Fitness in the CF and the policies remember?

Hate to lock another thread for a couple of days because people have to cool off.

/mod mode



I have seen both shapes in the Regs and Reserves...."fit" shape and "pear" shape.

The whole point is everyone has to get into fit, fighting shape. It takes time, as rcacc011 put it.

The days of the overweight soldier are gone and everyone has to get with the program....even I am.

If you become injured there are actions to take to get better...unfortunatly the reserves don't have the same institutions that we do. Not too many reserve units have a UMS to go to ..... AFAIK.

My $0.02 worth.

Regards

 

[Fishbone Jones]

No one was arguing for the 'right to be fat'. We all recognize the requirement for being fit to fight. The question was how the policies, which is what the thread is about, were going to encompass Cl A's hurt during off duty PT training. Which is not off topic. It has to do with how the policies are going to be applied to Cl A's and their options if injured, which is still on topic.

 

[orange.paint]

I personally want to see what happens when the results are posted in this year.In my opinion a person who is going to be in any leadership role who doesn't pass shouldn't be placed in that role again till he can meet the minimum requirements.Which is a whole other rant on the lack standard.

Hopefully this will open up the positions to more fit people thus producing the "culture of fitness" the CDS wishes to have.The system needs to be flushed from the top down,jobs that are currently held by out of shape pers may be that they excel or have expertise in that field.This should exempt nobody.As keen fit soldiers can do the job just as well.Just sometimes these out of shape people will make it appear only they can excel at their job, so they have a purpose.

I believe if they stick to the standards that are in place now though no one can complain at the standard being draconian.It there and everyone knows that standard as stated earlier.Therefor when it comes time for the testing this year EVERYONE who fails knows their toast.What happens then?we shall have to wait and see.

I also heard the rumor a while back that class A will be tested.I can honestly say A class to reg and all in between the standard is low and well know.This can be a good START.Begin with this to root out the major problems with the lack standard and develop the standard in the future to make our force stronger (numbers isn't always everything).

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I don't think anyone was arguing against that, we all recognise the need and reason.

 

[Hot Lips]

Well we nurse will be really glad to see this policy...after hours in ER we used to get CF members who couldn't get into the base hospital after hours...

I had no idea, and I always assumed (yeah yeah ass-u-me) that CF members were fit...cause they were CF members...wouldn't they be...wouldn't they have to be?

Low and behold...the more I looked around at people in Uniform the more I noted that this was not the case.

It is a shame in a way to have to implement a policy...I know some trades are more sedate...but it is well known that a healthy person, is fit or mind, body and spirit...

I don't have to exercise...I do and it feels great...I can contribute that much to my country at this time...my own better health...cause the system is burdened with those who are not healthy...obesity, smoking and poor diets are for the most part why, the healthcare system is in a crisis...

My 2 cents

HL

 

[Gunner]

Gents, I'm locking this topic to let tempers cool for 24 hrs.  I have cleaned up all the BS (from everyone) and get it back on track. 

 

[Gunner]

Ok, by popular demand, I've lifted the lock.  Let's keep it on topic, professional and with reasoned comments. 

 

[Haggis]

I'll start by saying that the DAOD is not yet signed by the CMP (formerly ADM (HR-Mil)).  However, the results of the testing are being compiled for a report to be rendered to the CDS in the very near future.  The data input deadline was last weekend, so everyone will have to be a bit more patient.

 

[foerestedwarrior]

Ok, let me say this. I am a Class B reservist, that is required to pass my express test. Regardless of that fact, I have achieved exemption every time I have done it, right from the get go. So I was in shape to do it while I was a class A.

Everyone should be doing PT. People who wine about the fact that they might get hurt by doing PT so they dont are lazy whiners.......Lots of people have been murdered in Toronto in the last year, yet you still go there..............thats dangerous............you still drive your car to work everyday....and that is dangerous........I geuse until we do it, class A reservists will stay out of shape(generally)

 

[Neill McKay]

Everyone should be doing PT. People who wine about the fact that they might get hurt by doing PT so they dont are lazy whiners.......Lots of people have been murdered in Toronto in the last year, yet you still go there..............thats dangerous

Given the number of people who live in Toronto, the percentage who are murdered in any given year is pretty small.  It's not as dangerous as the media would have you believe.

But more on topic, I don't know that a lot of people have said they won't do any PT because they're afraid of getting hurt.  Rather, they've said that requiring a member to do PT on his own time, when he's not covered in any way by the Crown and therefore may risk his livelihood should he be injured badly enough, is a bad idea.

............you still drive your car to work everyday....and that is dangerous........I geuse until we do it, class A reservists will stay out of shape(generally)

Do you assert that most Class A reservists are out of shape?

 

[paracowboy]

But more on topic, I don't know that a lot of people have said they won't do any PT because they're afraid of getting hurt.  Rather, they've said that requiring a member to do PT on his own time, when he's not covered in any way by the Crown and therefore may risk his livelihood should he be injured badly enough, is a bad idea.

see, though, here's my problem with that logic:

We know that the fitter a person is, the less likely they are to receive a serious injury/illness, and the quicker they will heal from said injury/illness. By staying reasonably fit, eating a reasonably healthy diet, and cutting back on the booze/nicotine, the individuals in question are actually ensuring they are less likely to endanger their livelihood. So, it behooves all God's chillun to get/stay as fit as they can, regardless of Component. Heck, regardless of occupation. Or gender, race, sexual orientation, religious belief, or preferred TV show.

Or have I flipped out again?

 

[Hot Lips]

Paracowboy,

I agree with you 100%, when you say that the more fit you are the less likely you are to get hurt and more likely it is that you will recover quicker if you do.

Why wouldn't individuals want to stay fit and healthy for their own good?  If you go skiing you can hurt yourself, or whitewater rafting...these are sports but people still do them, even though they can get hurt...they want to be active and fit.

I find it really hard to buy into this whole, I have to do it for my job  ???

My 2 cents

HL

 

[Neill McKay]

see, though, here's my problem with that logic:

We know that the fitter a person is, the less likely they are to receive a serious injury/illness, and the quicker they will heal from said injury/illness. By staying reasonably fit, eating a reasonably healthy diet, and cutting back on the booze/nicotine, the individuals in question are actually ensuring they are less likely to endanger their livelihood. So, it behooves all God's chillun to get/stay as fit as they can, regardless of Component. Heck, regardless of occupation. Or gender, race, sexual orientation, religious belief, or preferred TV show.

Or have I flipped out again?

Everything you've said above makes very good sense.  The issue isn't whether or not a person should be fit.  The issue is that requiring PT for a reservist, on his own time, without any coverage if he maims himself doing it, isn't right.  The reg. force member who wrecks his ankle on a morning run with his platoon and can't walk for two weeks is looked after.  The reservist who does the same on his own time and can't stock shelves at Canadian Tire for two weeks is screwed.  Requiring him to put himself in the situation of being screwed in this way is the problem.

I don't think you'll find anyone who says reservists shouldn't do PT.  What some people are saying is that if reservists are going to be required to follow a PT programme on their own time. they should be looked after by the Service in the event that they're injured.  Right now that doesn't happen, so by mandating PT by reservists on their own time the Service wouldn't really be holding up its end of the deal.

 

[paracowboy]

yeah, I'm pickin' up what folks are layin' down here, but I'm not talkin' about Reservists doing PT "just for the Army". I'm saying they (along with every other fat, weak-willed, obeseri illegitmo in this doughnut-munchin' land of ours should) be doing PT for their own general good. And ours as tax payers, since it would knock our medical and insurance fees down.

Sure the CF should do something to assist them, I'll buy that. But I also don't think that the lack excuses anybody from being a lazy POS. You signed the line. Nobody held a gun to your head. You weren't conscripted. Reservists can accept the chance to go overseas and get their asses blown up, but can't accept the chance they may twist an ankle playing rugby with some buds for an hour? Nope, don't buy that at all.

Before I enlisted, I lifted weights, rodeo'd, played hockey, and practiced the ancient art of the Sukiyaki nose-toss. I didn't have an Army blanket of insurance covering me. I got hurt, but I bounced back and stayed fit.

The CF should do something, but bottom line: every soldier should bloody well realize that they accept certain risks when they sign line, and they should damn well also be aware that they will be required to make certain sacrifices for the greater good. So, they can bloody well do some sit-ups.

If our Reservist in question is so scared he'll roll an ankle, let him find some other means of staying fit than going for a run. The options are limitless. That dog don't hunt, I'm afraid.

 

[54/102 CEF]

For All

Some made a comment about not doing it until they get iron clad coverage

But not all made a comment! 

So we should stop wasting time where there is no problem - that will take care of itself -  and assist each other over the 10 foot wall of making the Army a better more capable place.

 

[foerestedwarrior]

Everything you've said above makes very good sense.  The issue isn't whether or not a person should be fit.  The issue is that requiring PT for a reservist, on his own time, without any coverage if he maims himself doing it, isn't right.  The reg. force member who wrecks his ankle on a morning run with his platoon and can't walk for two weeks is looked after.  The reservist who does the same on his own time and can't stock shelves at Canadian Tire for two weeks is screwed.  Requiring him to put himself in the situation of being screwed in this way is the problem.

OK, lets look at it like this. If you are a firefighter, you have to be in shape, they are not covered for doing PT on their own time. How about anyone in the sports trade(trainers, coaches, athletes), any one of them get hurt, they cant do their job, yet they still do it.

Paracowboy hit the nail on the head. You VOULUNTEERED to join the reserves. Buck it up, and go for some PT. If you are afraid of hurting yourself, invest some money and learn to swim. It is ALMOST 0 impact, yet still a fantastic aerobic and anaerobic work out.

Someone once said "The thrill of living is too great a sacrifice for the safety of existence"...I wish i could remember who it was.

Neill McKay- ALOT are. I currently help to run the PT at my reserve unit. I have 3 troops(under 20 years old) who can only do about 5 pushups before they start to drop their hips(like drop right to the ground). Now that is out of about the 20 people I do PT for. The other about 15 have troubles after about 10-12. The remaining 2-3 people, 25 easy....... So I would say that those 3 troops that cant do 5 push ups(about 10-15 seconds of physical effort), would come thunderin in after about kilometer number 5 on their BFT. Who do you want to be watching your back, the guy breathing so hard after a short ruck march he can hardly see, or the guy who can fireman carry you after a 13km ruck march.............

 

[orange.paint]

Reading the mapleleaf today at work and noticed the airforce developed a computer program and physical scan that determines if the person can operate inside cockpits.Now of course my brain started going how about put the parameters in for a lav 3/ coyote turret,drivers hoes etc.If they can't fit they cant be employable.

Where is this data base of people completed/failed?Is it public access?

Something I thought was really neat this week is that the army is starting to think outside the box on fitness.We have a couple of our more fit guys training with crossfit trainers this week to pass it on to the troops later on.Nice to see.

Now going on courses plq etc you have to pass your fitness test.Why the heck is this not implemented in battle school.This is where IMO the problems can be nipped in the butt.If your on chit for PT at a trades training level,recourse.Rewarding less work is not on in my mind.If your broken you don't pass go or get 200.Stopping the malingering,MIR commando's and out of shape losers at this level will benefit the whole army later down the road.Having said that only the most fit people should be in training and give the instructors the power to fail pers for fitness.Give them the ability to give red chits for fitness,after 3 bye bye fattie.Or make a P.O on fitness on every course.

 

[Haggis]

Where is this data base of people completed/failed?Is it public access?

The report to the CDS has not yet been delivered.  It will not name names, nor will any executive summary posted in the public domain.  The report will most likely indicate, by command and component, the number/percentage of those who passed, failed, were exempt or medically excused.

 

[54/102 CEF]

To speed this up - ref getting the message

An idea

An Access to info request

Dear sir

How many people in unit X

Passed Express test - by rank
Failed Express test - by rank
Were exempted - by rank
Were deferred due to med un fit - by rank

The results should be posted just like safety numbers

Then everyone who doesn`t pass gets a coach - to encourage him/her - not rat him/her out as a POS.

Within a short time we should see sky rocketting pass rates

 

[scaddie]

I was told the other evening that everyone deploying on Class B, whether it's course or just a tasking, must pass the minimum express test. At least it's a start.