- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
Best of luck, George. Thought you‘d had enough of that place.
New MBT(Leo 2, M1A2, or Challenger 2), new light tank (Stingray), or new DFSV (M8 or MGS)?
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 184
- Points
- 710
Guess the place had enough of me.....got the word at 0700 this morning that I would not be gettion on the 0900 bus to Trenton on Monday. Sorry Franko...I won‘t be dropping in to see you.
GW
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
George
Have a good one. Yea I thought you would never get out of there. I too have lost all respect for Hiller. I guess that bonus for saying YES, counts.
Colin
The 105 is as good as the 120. Just because "Bigger is not always better". The old Sherman had a 37mm Ram, 17 pdr,75,76,90,and last a 105. The old 17 was the best out of the bunch. It was the same size as the 76 but hit harder. There is a big differnce between a tank 105 and a Arty 105.
Have a good one. Yea I thought you would never get out of there. I too have lost all respect for Hiller. I guess that bonus for saying YES, counts.
Colin
The 105 is as good as the 120. Just because "Bigger is not always better". The old Sherman had a 37mm Ram, 17 pdr,75,76,90,and last a 105. The old 17 was the best out of the bunch. It was the same size as the 76 but hit harder. There is a big differnce between a tank 105 and a Arty 105.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 184
- Points
- 710
Was really looking forward to it, but it got canned at the last minute. Now I am reconnecting all my Phone, Internet, etc. that I had cut off for the Tour. Turning out to be expensive. Guess I am still the Phanthom RCD.
GW
GW
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 184
- Points
- 710
Let‘s get back on subject for a while. Some of us know of the problems that the MGS has, but why aren‘t they relevant to the ‘Non-Armour‘ types? Some questions I have and would like addressed as to why their relevance isn‘t as high as they should be are:
1. What is the field of view for the Commander? Degrees and in what directions?
2. What is the field of view for the Gunner? Degrees and directions?
3. What is the Full Combat Load of Main Gun Ammo? How many rds in the Ready Rack? How many in the Carousel?
4. How long does it take to Bomb Up and is any specialized equipment required?
5. Can the crew fire with the hatches open? If not, how dangerous are the effects of firing on supporting Infantry? What is the Danger Radius of gun firing?
6. What is the rate of fire for the Main Gun with auto loader? How much time does it take to switch ammo selection after firing?
Let‘s clear up these questions before moving onto mobility questions.
GW
1. What is the field of view for the Commander? Degrees and in what directions?
2. What is the field of view for the Gunner? Degrees and directions?
3. What is the Full Combat Load of Main Gun Ammo? How many rds in the Ready Rack? How many in the Carousel?
4. How long does it take to Bomb Up and is any specialized equipment required?
5. Can the crew fire with the hatches open? If not, how dangerous are the effects of firing on supporting Infantry? What is the Danger Radius of gun firing?
6. What is the rate of fire for the Main Gun with auto loader? How much time does it take to switch ammo selection after firing?
Let‘s clear up these questions before moving onto mobility questions.
GW
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
- Reaction score
- 11,906
- Points
- 1,160
Why not go all the way and use the 165mm Demo gun that the Cent ARVE had?
B
babicma
Guest
Here is a short clip of a Leopard firing...
http://www.12rbc.ca/images/clip/leo_tir_1_mpg.mpg
http://www.12rbc.ca/images/clip/leo_tir_1_mpg.mpg
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 184
- Points
- 710
Franko....can you make out the C/S? It is 2___?
Looks like a RCD tank in Kosovo, perhaps? Trying to figure out the Range layout. Don‘t remember any hills like them.
RBC tanks are A Sqn and I believe LdSH are C Sqn.
GW
Looks like a RCD tank in Kosovo, perhaps? Trying to figure out the Range layout. Don‘t remember any hills like them.
RBC tanks are A Sqn and I believe LdSH are C Sqn.
GW
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 430
Sorry George...it won‘t come up for me at all. 5 tries and nothing.
BTW the Ferret and the Restoration team is planning to go to the activity you passed on to me. Hopefully the Bren is ready too...we‘ll see.
Regards
BTW the Ferret and the Restoration team is planning to go to the activity you passed on to me. Hopefully the Bren is ready too...we‘ll see.
Regards
Matt_Fisher
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 3
- Points
- 430
Franko,
Just curious as to why you think the CIBUA role for the Leopard is "utter rubbish"?
Just curious as to why you think the CIBUA role for the Leopard is "utter rubbish"?
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 430
Try getting a vehicle that was meant to go into battle in Western Europe with guns blazing....to rolling into a town to try and clear it is a bad idea to a certain extent. I‘d would much rather it be on overwatch while ops happen.
Mind you the Leo would provide more than adequate protection to the crew instead of the bloody MGS, which as we all know is a bit lacking in the RPG/ MG protection department.
Leo‘s have been on ops in Kosovo, passing over bridges and getting into towns where the roads were just too narrow for other tanks to go.
The "Rubbish" remark was in reference to the diagram to the proposed modifications. How the blazes is the crew supposed to maintain a vehicle by all acounts wrapped up in it‘s own cage effectivly? Ever drive a dozer tank? I have and let me tell you it‘s no walk in the park. Puts a great deal of stress on the front torsion bars...more than normal. It leads to handling problems as well.
Also...would you mind updating your profile
Like to know who I‘m talking to.
Regards
Mind you the Leo would provide more than adequate protection to the crew instead of the bloody MGS, which as we all know is a bit lacking in the RPG/ MG protection department.
Leo‘s have been on ops in Kosovo, passing over bridges and getting into towns where the roads were just too narrow for other tanks to go.
The "Rubbish" remark was in reference to the diagram to the proposed modifications. How the blazes is the crew supposed to maintain a vehicle by all acounts wrapped up in it‘s own cage effectivly? Ever drive a dozer tank? I have and let me tell you it‘s no walk in the park. Puts a great deal of stress on the front torsion bars...more than normal. It leads to handling problems as well.
Also...would you mind updating your profile
Like to know who I‘m talking to.
Regards
Franko,
While I for one am not a fan of tanks in a fibua situation, I‘m reminded of how our ancestors solved the problem in WWII- two tanks leading, followed by infantry. Tanks were side by side, and they systematically took the tops off of every building on the street as they slowly advanced- bringing the tops floors down on the remainder. Infantry mopped up the remains as they went.
Blindingly slow, and expensive both in terms of Hesh and infrastructure, it nonetheless made for a safe ride through town.
Matt- lesson time- a tank is a combination of three attributes. Armoured protection, speed, and firepower. In the "old" days (pre Leopard 2 and M-1) there was a tradeoff between protection and speed- make the tank heavy, you could take hits- but had a tough time avoiding them. Make a tank light, and you could avoid many hits- but one good one would kill you. With improved drivetrains and suspensions,todays tanks can take a hit, and move quickly- but none can take hits in certain areas, and all will fall to a good missile- and with no room no manouever, no room to build up speed, no dirt to hide behind, and plenty of places for the bad guys to engage you from a close range, a tank is merely a sitting duck. No thanks.
General rule of thumb- Tanks lead the way in open ground, Infantry leads the way in close ground.
Built up areas are extremely close ground.
Cheers-Garry
While I for one am not a fan of tanks in a fibua situation, I‘m reminded of how our ancestors solved the problem in WWII- two tanks leading, followed by infantry. Tanks were side by side, and they systematically took the tops off of every building on the street as they slowly advanced- bringing the tops floors down on the remainder. Infantry mopped up the remains as they went.
Blindingly slow, and expensive both in terms of Hesh and infrastructure, it nonetheless made for a safe ride through town.
Matt- lesson time- a tank is a combination of three attributes. Armoured protection, speed, and firepower. In the "old" days (pre Leopard 2 and M-1) there was a tradeoff between protection and speed- make the tank heavy, you could take hits- but had a tough time avoiding them. Make a tank light, and you could avoid many hits- but one good one would kill you. With improved drivetrains and suspensions,todays tanks can take a hit, and move quickly- but none can take hits in certain areas, and all will fall to a good missile- and with no room no manouever, no room to build up speed, no dirt to hide behind, and plenty of places for the bad guys to engage you from a close range, a tank is merely a sitting duck. No thanks.
General rule of thumb- Tanks lead the way in open ground, Infantry leads the way in close ground.
Built up areas are extremely close ground.
Cheers-Garry
