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Nijmegen March Medal. Authorized for wear on CAF DEU , mess kit?

Eye In The Sky

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I can't attach a picture for some reason., but recently I saw a pic on FB of a mbr in Mess Kit with a yellow medal after their CD.  I wasn't sure what it was and assumed it was a medal from another country.

The past few days, I saw this picture on FB and realized it is the Nijmegen march medal.  I've never seen it before on someone's DEU or mess kit, just curious if it is authorized for wear by CAF mbrs.  It isn't on the Canada Medals Chart.
 

ModlrMike

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AFIK, it's a purely commemorative medal, and as such can not be worn on ANY order of dress.
 

OldTanker

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No different than a volksmarch medal (and I have both). No place on uniform.
 

Journeyman

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It can be worn on a Legion blazer…. with the same amount of pride as their other make-believe medals.  :pop:
 

Eye In The Sky

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Thanks for the replies...confirmed what I believed but...hey, I've been wrong before.  It pains me to say that the mbr in the picture was a Warrant Officer.  ::)  Finally got the pic to attach.
 

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dapaterson

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It is not uncommon for folks to wear it with mess kit, regardless of the regulations.
 

gcclarke

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Eye In The Sky said:
The new military.  :whistle:

Eh, it's mess kit. Letting folks have a bit of fun with the tux they paid for themselves is hardly a new phenomenon.
 

Old EO Tech

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gcclarke said:
Eh, it's mess kit. Letting folks have a bit of fun with the tux they paid for themselves is hardly a new phenomenon.

Agreed we all wear our foreign jump wings on our mess kit despite regulations I would argue the difference though is I have never seen GOFO/SA CWO wearing a commemorative medal on their mess kit wear as there are many examples of them wearing foreign wings that we can all point to as "the example"
 

dapaterson

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Old EO Tech said:
Agreed we all wear our foreign jump wings on our mess kit despite regulations I would argue the difference though is I have never seen GOFO/SA CWO wearing a commemorative medal on their mess kit wear as there are many examples of them wearing foreign wings that we can all point to as "the example"

I have seen at least one GOFO wearing one.
 

Old EO Tech

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dapaterson said:
I have seen at least one GOFO wearing one.

I'd be interested to see a picture of that, but I guess its no different than the CDS wearing foreign wings on the wrong side of his tunic at a NATO conference :-/
 

Eye In The Sky

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Old EO Tech said:
I'd be interested to see a picture of that, but I guess its no different than the CDS wearing foreign wings on the wrong side of his tunic at a NATO conference :-/

Maybe this part of 265 covers that part?

Ch 3, Sect 3 - Flying and Specialist Skill Badges, Foreign Flying and Specialist Skill Badges

15.  Personnel who have been presented equivalent badges of allied countries as a result of qualifications obtained on a course prescribed by the CAF, and those who have been presented honorary qualification badges while attached to, or serving with the armed forces of an allied country, may wear the appropriate metal or cloth badge, on the right breast of the service dress and mess dress jacket only while on duty in the specific allied country, when subsequently working with the armed forces of the country or when attending a formal function sponsored by the country concerned.
 

NavalMoose

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Reminds me of a General that liked wearing lots of rings

 

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Old EO Tech

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Eye In The Sky said:
Maybe this part of 265 covers that part?

Ch 3, Sect 3 - Flying and Specialist Skill Badges, Foreign Flying and Specialist Skill Badges

15.  Personnel who have been presented equivalent badges of allied countries as a result of qualifications obtained on a course prescribed by the CAF, and those who have been presented honorary qualification badges while attached to, or serving with the armed forces of an allied country, may wear the appropriate metal or cloth badge, on the right breast of the service dress and mess dress jacket only while on duty in the specific allied country, when subsequently working with the armed forces of the country or when attending a formal function sponsored by the country concerned.

Thanks I'm well aware of the regs, which is why I stated he was wearing one set on the wrong side, ie the left pocket as I guess he just had to many foreign wings :-/  I would also question that a NATO conference is a "formal function" sponsored by "the country concerned", but I guess as CDS he has the option to interpret the regs, since they are issued on his authority :-/

Cheers
 

Pusser

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There is this common attitude that we can wear whatever we like on mess dress because we pay for it.  Although there is a certain amount of flair that is often overlooked*, mess dress is still a CAF uniform and the CAF Dress Instructions do apply.

There is a misconception when it comes to medals that it's the CAF that determines what you can wear and once you're out, those rules don't apply.  However, CAF regulations only determine where or how you wear them, not what we wear.  The only stipulation for what medals you can wear on CAF uniforms is that they must be approved under the Canadian Honours System.  The CAF does not "own" or control the Canadian Honours System.  The Crown "owns" it and the Chancellery (part of the Office of the Governor General) manages it.  The only current** orders, decorations and medals that are approved for Canadians can be found on the Medals Chart published by the Director Honours and Recognition (DH&R):https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/services/medals/medals-chart-index.html.  It is worth noting that the Nijmegan March medal is not there.  Canadians wishing to wear medals that are not automatically part of the Honours System need to request permission from the Chancellery in order to wear them in the same group as Canadian Honours.  CAF members submit theirs request through the Chain of Command, who will forward it to the Chancellery.  Once approved by the GG, the award of a foreign medal will be Gazetted.  Note that there are many UN and NATO medals (but not all of them) that have been accepted into the Canadian Honours System, so they are no longer considered "foreign" in this context.

*Admittedly, I have been wearing a foreign qualification badge (which I have earned) on my mess dress for the last 20 years, in the same position that my foreign colleagues would wear it on their mess dress.  I've only been challenged on it once.  A CWO told me I was not allowed to do that, to which I politely responded that I would remove it as soon as everybody in the Army took down all their foreign jump wings.  The difference being that I actually took the foreign course that earned me that badge, whereas (at least as I understand it) foreign jump wings are often worn by folks who have merely made a certain number of jumps with a foreign army. 

**Older medals (e.g. those awarded prior to 1967 under the Commonwealth system) are still approved for wear with current Canadian honours, but that's a little more complicated that I wish to explain right now.  The order of precedence can be a little wonky.
 

gcclarke

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Pusser said:
There is this common attitude that we can wear whatever we like on mess dress because we pay for it.  Although there is a certain amount of flair that is often overlooked*, mess dress is still a CAF uniform and the CAF Dress Instructions do apply.

Well that's the thing about common attitudes; if they're common enough, they become the rule of the day. De facto versus de jure.

Not all regulations are made equal after all. Someone deciding to tweak the rules in the dress instructions with regards to mess kit? End of the day, no harm no foul. Someone deciding to tweak the rules regarding ammunition or radiation safety in order to have a bit of fun? Big fucking deal.

Or, to keep things related to mess kits: wearing a foreign badge that you've actually been awarded: no big deal. Wearing a Canadian medal fraudulently: it's court martial time.

Throwing on a Nijmegen march medal seems very much so within the spirit of what we're trying to accomplish by having mess kit in the first place. Personally, I just ignore the silly relatively new addition about how "Only approved RCN Ensign cuff-links are to be worn."
 

Pusser

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gcclarke said:
Throwing on a Nijmegen march medal seems very much so within the spirit of what we're trying to accomplish by having mess kit in the first place. Personally, I just ignore the silly relatively new addition about how "Only approved RCN Ensign cuff-links are to be worn."

Yes I ignore that one as well.  Mind you, I've been wearing cufflinks on my long-sleeve white shirts for years (ever since I saw a Cmdre doing it over 20 years ago).  I now have quite a collection of over 50 pairs that I rotate through.  All of them are cool.  Some are really cool.
 

eliminator

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I thought it was customary to wear the Nijmegen march medal under the lapel of the mess kit jacket? (Out of sight and easily shown if "challenged" by a former march member by flipping up the lapel)

I've seen various unapproved medals (not authorized to be mounted in conjunction with Canadian honours) such as low-level USA awards, NATO-ISAF, cadet medals (Lord Strathcona, Long Service), and association medals (Order of St Lazarus, etc)....but never a Nijmegen march medal.

Perhaps the only way to really view this as a "grey area" is the fact that the various regulations related to the Canadian Honours System pertains to the actual, full sized medals/decorations/orders/devices....rather than the optional miniature versions purchased by the recipient (?).
 

Navy_Pete

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gcclarke said:
"Only approved RCN Ensign cuff-links are to be worn."

What kind of foolishness is that and where is that from?

It's almost an NTO tradition to have propellers, missiles or some other job related cufflinks.  That's just daft.
 

gcclarke

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Navy_Pete said:
What kind of foolishness is that and where is that from?

It's almost an NTO tradition to have propellers, missiles or some other job related cufflinks.  That's just daft.

Absurd, I know. Anyways, it's from Chapt 5 Annex E of the dress instructions: the table item for Cuff Links specifies that: (3)  Navy: Only RCN Ensign Cuff-links
may be worn in all orders of dress.

Although now that I'm reading that, in conjunction with the line item above it, where it outlines which orders of dress the Army can wear it in, I believe it's not all that out to lunch to interpret that regulation to mean that wear of Cuff Links is literally authorized in all orders of dress, NCDs included. Poorly worded regulations for the win. Who wants to try it?
 
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