No more blue berets at Remembrance Day

[pbi]

Right you are PBI, which is why I mentioned the "hairier" missions from days gone by. CO of the RCR BG for ATHENA 0 had a great quote on "peacekeepers" just before he deployed. Wish I could remember it...

If you're talking about LCol Don Denne, RCR, he said words to the effect of " I cringe every time I hear that word "peacekeeper": we're soldiers not peacekeepers". Or along those lines. Cheers.

 

[axeman]

Good Lord man, how old are you?   It may be time to update your profile.   Assuming your teacher was born in 1900, he went over the wall in 1917 at the age of 17.   According to your profile you were born in 65.   Hence when you were born, he was 65.   By the time you were any meaningful age (10) he was 75.   Well done for him to keep teaching you young'uns the history of your nation.    

i grad'ed in 83  he taught at his own convenience a WELL respected teacher for his depth of knowledge and experiance  just after i got out of school. he joined at age 15 yup 15, it was  him that made my schooling experience less of a grind then it normally was. yup i know what it sounded like but hey think back to your school and all your mil training occasinally there comes along one person whos depth of knowledge just allows them to come and go as they please this was one such person 

 

[bossi]

Perhaps this letter to the Editor of the Toronto Star demonstrates why it is important to differentiate between Remembrance Day and Peackeeping Day
P.S. (our troops in Afghanistan did not wear the UN blue beret, nor did our Unknown Soldier)

Peacekeeping part of national identity

CBC's Greatest Canadian contest has been a popular conversation piece, and may have even boosted national pride a little. However, a most significant individual of our nation has been greatly overlooked â ” the Canadian Peacekeeper. I would be willing to ignore the failure to recognize this enduring symbol of our national character, which has solidified our first-class reputation around the globe, if the contest was limited to proper-named individuals only. But, at Number 21 on the list is The Unknown Soldier of World War I. The Canadian Peacekeeper has created such a reputable name for him or herself that one of the first characteristics attributed to our country is "peacekeeping." Surely, the selfless, heroic individuals who have served in Afghanistan, Haiti and Sudan deserve a spot on the list that supposedly identifies those who've made our country great.

Daniel Schwab, Toronto

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I pointed it out in the other thread and will do so here - The Unknown Soldier is a single fllesh and blood individual; one set of remains are entombed at the National War Monument.  He was a single person just as much as anyone else on the list.

"The Canadian Peacekeeper" is a concept, not a person, and should not have been on the list.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Considering 99.999 per cent of the 110,000 canadians killed while wearing the Maple Leaf, I think a better question is why you would want to take off your regimental beret and badge in order to wear foreign headgear. The medals on your chest denote where, when and with who you served as a Canadian soldier.

If I recall correctly the "honour" or distininction of wearing the blue beret was a result of "Peacekeepers" winning the Nobel Prize in 1988. We were allowed to wear the blue beret the next Remembrance Day in honour of this and the CPSM was also as an outcome of this distinction. However, the wearing of the blue beret was only for that year but it continued on year after year but we were not authorized to do so.

I remember coming back from tour and the first rememberance day with my regiment (I spent the one overseas on a mountain top; petrim) we all wore the blue beret.   I was proud as punch.   the following year was when the ruling went down, I believe, and boy was I pissed!   How dare they take that away from me!.

But eventually, I think Gunner you summed up exactly what i came to realise, that I don't need to wear a blue hat for people to see where I have gone, and the day is to honor our fallen.   What better way to pay respect than to wear the regimenal headress of our fallen commrades

Very good post Gunner

tess

 

[Veterans son]

My father served in Germany with 4th Field Squadron, RCE from 1962 -1965. As I understand, the troops were serving
under NATO command(I could be mistaken about that).

When serving with NATO, would Dad have worn a different colour beret and capbadge than that of the CF?

Thanks everyone and an informative topic too!

 

[Michael Dorosh]

My father served in Germany with 4th Field Squadron, RCE from 1962 -1965. As I understand, the troops were serving
under NATO command(I could be mistaken about that).

When serving with NATO, would Dad have worn a different colour beret and capbadge than that of the CF?

Thanks everyone and an informative topic too!

He would have worn the standard headdress.  I think the midnight blue beret with blue RCE flash was replaced in the late 50s with a blue forage cap.  In the field, the bush cap would have been worn.

 

[Gryphon]

You know, i may have not served within the capacity of a peacekeeper, but i feel that the decision whether to wear the blue berret or the green/black/airforce blue berret should be up to the individual.. i'm sorry, but Canada's role in the world is not in the capacity of soldiers... not any more... we are peacekeepers... we try (sometime unsuccesfully, as in many cases, one being Rwanda) but we try, and many, many nations respect and identify Canada, and the CF as peacekeepers.... Personally, I would rather be known as the peacekeeper who died trying to help people get a better life, and know that that's what i'm doing, then die and wonder if I was only sent to the country so that my Government can just get some benfit from my death...

And I do realize that the majority of soldiers who have died while in service was outside of a peacekeeping role, those who died in Bosnia, who died in Afghanistan, and who ever else died while wearing the Canadian uniform regardless of what flag s/he served under still deserve recognition, and deserve to be remembered as much as Pte. Joe Bloggins who was killed on Dieppe...

Please tell me if any of this makes sense... i haven't slept in quite a while... damned schooling...

 

[the 48th regulator]

hehe understood on the sleep factor.

Don't think we are debating the validity of the peacekeeping concept and the deaths that have happened on tour, I think we are discussing the wearing of the Blue Beret on remembrance day.

What we are witnessing is a fairly odd concept, serving an entity other than our own country, and being asked to put ourselves in harms way to better a group of people in a time of need.

Think about it, we are asked to remove our beloved head dress, use our skills to stop a war, not fight one, and then told to return home and forget about the U.N.   Too some it was hard, heck I think i mentioned that in this thread already.   But, I came to realise that the 11th of November was not a day my pals and myself to parade around and show off what we have done, but a day to remember those that were not fortunate enough to be there with us.

The simple act of wearing a Poppy, is the universal way of remembering.   If people have a need to show that they are truly paying their respect to the fallen, then pin it on your chest, hat, gym bag or where ever else your fancy takes you.  

Those of us that have had the privilege (yes I can see the rolling of eyes) of serving under the U.N flag know what we did served a purpose, I sure as heck feel that I made difference.   And yes at first I wanted to wear that beret all the the time, but in the end, the memories and gongs on my chest are good enough.

So Pro Patria, Dileas Gu Brath and all the rest

tess

 

[bossi]

My father served in Germany with 4th Field Squadron, RCE from 1962 -1965.

Perhaps somebody who's more familiar with the SSM could opine whether he's entitled to one ... ?

 

[pbi]

soldiers... not any more... we are peacekeepers

Unfortunately, this statement epitomizes the problem we have debated at length, on this thread and elsewhere. Not only do many members of our public not understand who we are or what we are for, but within our own ranks this has become a confused issue.

If you are in the Army, you are a soldier. If you don't think of yourself as a soldier, IMHO you are in the wrong place.

"Peacekeeping" or "Peace Support Operations" or WTH we are calling it this week are just tasks. They are not reasons for being, and as Kosovo and our participation in OEF have served to remind us, the world may call us at any time to engage in combat. Any peace support opeation can degenerate into combat with one trigger pull. And combat, as far as I know, requires soldiers.

Cheers.

 

[Infanteer]

I'm sorry, but Canada's role in the world is not in the capacity of soldiers... not any more... we are peacekeepers...

Sure, tell that to the guys who Air Assaulted into the Shah-e-Kot.   Maybe you should try

a) learning about what actual peacekeeping really is (Suez is a good place to start) and

b) what Canada has actually been doing the last 10 years (except for Golan and some smaller stuff - nothing like Suez).

we try (sometime unsuccesfully, as in many cases, one being Rwanda) but we try, and many, many nations respect and identify Canada, and the CF as peacekeepers....

Are you going to substantiate that analysis, or are you really just trying to bluff us with some of your school studies.   Please, if you're going to make bold statements to guys who have been there and done that for quite some time, provide e-v-i-d-e-n-c-e.

 

[pbi]

Infanteer: while I appreciate the virtual thrashing you have just administered to gryphon664, I can't help but feel that we in the CF have, to a certain extent, been the villains in the piece by overselling this "Happy Blue Peackeeper With Floppy Hat and Candy Bars" in ast years when we were so uncertain of our existence that we were afraid to use the word "Army in public. We may be reaping what we have sown, despite the last few years of much improved publicity. Cheers.

 

[Infanteer]

I can't help but feel that we in the CF have, to a certain extent, been the villains in the piece

I agree, and we're still guilty, only the message has changed now (Post Somalia/hazing/RMC sex scandals is my guess); it's now "Strong and Proud" and the picture is of a bunch of goofy-looking, multi-cultural, mixed-gender happy people waving like kids - if it wasn't for their odd fitting uniform, you wouldn't even think that they existed to project force and violence upon others.   This is backed by an institution that loves to hand out survey's asking us to "self-identify".

http://www.cflrs.forces.gc.ca/

We haven't been really good in the PR department for a while.

 

[Gryphon]

First of all, sorry if I offended or anyone felt that their time served overseas  has been degraded by what I said... I guess i need to learn when to keep my trap shut, eh?

We haven't been really good in the PR department for a while.

agreed...

 

[marshall sl]

Perhaps somebody who's more familiar with the SSM could opine whether he's entitled to one ... ?

Appears that he is.

SSM-NATO BAR
An aggregate of 180 days of honourable service within the North Atlantic Treaty Organization's (NATO) area of responsibility since its beginning on 01 January 1951 and still continuing. Qualifying service is service while posted to a NATO unit, or to a Canadian Forces or allied formation or unit outside territorial limits of Canada under the operational control of a NATO headquarters, or in Canada on an operational staff directly participating in the operational control of such formations and units. In the latter case, only those staff personnel serving in an operations room directly participating in the control of ships and aircraft in NATO operations and exercises qualify for this service.

 

[Veterans son]

bossi and marshall sl

Thank you for your replies!
Would my father be entitled to any other medals for being posted to Germany
while with the Canadian Forces please?

 

[bossi]

Not sure - It's my understanding the SSM was intended to recognise service such as NATO in Germany, since no other medals had been awarded (and, after all, this service all contributed to the eventual end of the Cold War)

Somewhere else on Army.ca there's information on how to check service records - you might like to check this out.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

bossi and marshall sl

Thank you for your replies!
Would my father be entitled to any other medals for this posting to Germany
while with the Canadian Forces please?

The normal issue for Germany is the SSM w/ NATO bar. That's it. Unless he had awards for exemplary service or a bravery award, something like that.

 

[Veterans son]

Thanks for your reply, recceguy!