No more Carl G?
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The 106mm RR had a 50cal spotting rifle mounted above... pull to fire the 50 and push to fire the main gun..... (orgasm at the memoriesBlue Max said:
)There were tests to upgrade the 106, they looked at a new mount - ditch the wheelbarow mount AND replacing the spotting rifle with a laser rangefinder... in the end - they chose to leave em all in warstock.......... sigh!
There is a sub calibre kit for the Carl Gustav... not meant for sighting or rangefinding
What is the rationale behind wanting to retire the Carl G? Isn't it better suited for use on the offensive than the ERYX? Not to mention cheaper to use against bunkers and low value targets. Also, with the ALAAWS eventually coming into service, isn't ERYX on the chopping block too? It seems like there is a lot of confusion about the future of CF's direct fire capabilities at the moment, and which weapon systems will be retained.
On a tangent to the Carl G, what ever happened to the CLASS sights? Are they still in use?
On a tangent to the Carl G, what ever happened to the CLASS sights? Are they still in use?
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Ouch,
The Carl G did and does in fact have a sub calibre insert for training.
http://products.saab.se/PDBWeb/GetFile.aspx?pathtype=ProductFiles&filetype=Files&id=2642
And if we must, so does the M-72. :
And yes I have had the opportunity to fire both.
The Carl G did and does in fact have a sub calibre insert for training.
http://products.saab.se/PDBWeb/GetFile.aspx?pathtype=ProductFiles&filetype=Files&id=2642
And if we must, so does the M-72. :
And yes I have had the opportunity to fire both.
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geo said:The 106mm RR had a 50cal spotting rifle mounted above... pull to fire the 50 and push to fire the main gun..... (orgasm at the memories
There were tests to upgrade the 106, they looked at a new mount - ditch the wheelbarow mount AND replacing the spotting rifle with a laser rangefinder... in the end - they chose to leave em all in warstock.......... sigh!
The CLASS sight was trialed for the 106mm and Carl G. This was an attempt to integrate day/night optics with a laser range finder and a ballistic computer. According to an old Infantry Journal article (sorry, I no longer have it and there seems to be no link), the CLASS allowed for phenominal first round hit probability and increased effective engagement ranges (up to about 1000m stationary for a Carl-G).
Since this was the early 1990s, I think, there would have been issues with the reliability and cost, but it certainly would be worth redoing with today's technology. Since most of the reasons for missing a target have to do with misjudging the ranges (especially long range engagements), the existing range of ammunition can soldier on for years to come if coupled to a new sight.
Of course carrying a lightweight Carl Gustave M-3 wouldn't hurt either.
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Having just completed my reserve SQ and BIQ this summer, I was faced with an interesting situation. Neither course contained training on how to use the Carl G, but it was an integral part of BIQ (ie. tank hunting, ambush etc.). As far as I know, as of right now, there is no course for the reserves that teaches the Carl G. Yet it remains, and will remain it seems, part of every infantry platoon. Is the necessary training going to be provided at a unit level now, or is it going to be reintroduced to a course?
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Finished my reserve BIQ this summer. We were not shown at any point how to use the Carl Gustav, how to use the M72 or any anti-tank warfare basics. Fortunatly, it was corrected at unit level. For what I have heard during my course, it would be the Eryx being phased out in favor of a broader use of the ADATS and not the Carl Gustav that would remain the cheapest way to get a good firework in the field.
Disclaimer : That is 1st and 2nd hand info from this summer courses on BFC Valcartier andis subject to change as often as the CF change their minds on the matter of direct fire capability, or every week or two in civvy terms.
Douke
Disclaimer : That is 1st and 2nd hand info from this summer courses on BFC Valcartier andis subject to change as often as the CF change their minds on the matter of direct fire capability, or every week or two in civvy terms.
Douke
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I participated in some CLASS sight work in the mid-90s. It was a development of CDC in Ottawa. It was a pretty cool piece of kit that included a laser range finder, rate gyros to judge how quickly a target was moving and a ballistic computer with several selectable ammo natures. The sight used 2 revolving prisms to bend the incoming image so the user merely laid the sight on target and followed the directions.
The downside was size an durability. The unit I used was certainly not infantry proof and I wonder now at its ability to withstand the repeated shock of firing the 84. It was possible to mount the CLASS on a variety of weapons such as a AGL, the 25 mm chain gun (the US navy has a pintle mounted version) and a few other platforms. (Maybe the 106)
Also, the CG had 2 rifle caliber training inserts. The earlier version used a 6.5 mm round and the later one was 7.62 mm. There may have been a .22 LR but I don't remember it.
All comments in favour of the M3 version I second. I used it on a few exs and what a massive difference in the load for the gunner. Why we haven't replaced all the stock is beyond me.
Steve
The downside was size an durability. The unit I used was certainly not infantry proof and I wonder now at its ability to withstand the repeated shock of firing the 84. It was possible to mount the CLASS on a variety of weapons such as a AGL, the 25 mm chain gun (the US navy has a pintle mounted version) and a few other platforms. (Maybe the 106)
Also, the CG had 2 rifle caliber training inserts. The earlier version used a 6.5 mm round and the later one was 7.62 mm. There may have been a .22 LR but I don't remember it.
All comments in favour of the M3 version I second. I used it on a few exs and what a massive difference in the load for the gunner. Why we haven't replaced all the stock is beyond me.
Steve
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The M3 is not a bad piece of kit, it just has some durability issues, especially in regards to some of the plastic and foam parts cracking when exposed to very low temps and (ahem) exceedingly high rates of fire (19rounds/min) >
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Infanteer said:
No, it was more one of those "You don't have the parts to fire all of these rounds at fig 11's on the Pl defensive so we can get out of here and hit supper before it closes at 1800"
I had a headache for days...
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3.157 seconds a round, for 19 rounds. Pretty amazing for a two man crew. Hit anything?
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Yup, the mess hall at 1755 hours.....
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Please......
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recceguy said:
There you go, bringin' me down with details.
If you must know, the Ivans at 25 and 50 and 100m paid dearly. Beyond that, about 50%. :-[
I only wish we had taped it, just to prove it can be done (not that it is particularly effective to do so though)
We thought about it later and concluded that for a short - range ambush this might not be a bad drill, but otherwise, just bragging rights.
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Last I heard we're not phasing out the 84, rumour of possible phasing out of the M72 (stupid idea) and around 2007 we'll start recieving the Javelin (not the surface to air) or the spike. The reason you reservists don't get taught on your sq or biq is the time frame.
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Reservists SQ had Carl G on the program last year, and it has not shortened since there, but I guess they thought it wasn't essential for reservists courses and could easily be done at unit level (and I would tend to agree).
As for the M72, I heard they delayed it's phasing out after the guys in Afghanistan found it was one of the best way to clear a cave (anyone more informed then me could confirm this ? It's really Arab phone information).
Douke
As for the M72, I heard they delayed it's phasing out after the guys in Afghanistan found it was one of the best way to clear a cave (anyone more informed then me could confirm this ? It's really Arab phone information).
Douke
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