No peace from war: Mother fights for soldiers suffering PTSD

[the 48th regulator]

Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.




No peace from war
Mother fights for soldiers suffering post-traumatic stress disorder

By KATHLEEN HARRIS, NATIONAL BUREAU CHIEF

 
The mother of a 24-year-old soldier who returned from Afghanistan sleepless, agitated and suicidal arrives on Parliament Hill today to press for better care for troops with severe psychological battle scars.

Ann LeClair of Sarnia said her son, Cpl. Travis Schouten, returned from Kandahar in the fall of 2006 a "changed man." She said the Canadian Forces is not doing enough to help soldiers like him who suffer post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). She will testify in-camera today before MPs on the Commons defence committee studying the scope of the problem.

When Schouten returned from tour of duty, he started drinking heavily and became easily frustrated and angry. The gunner based at CFB Petawawa suffered nightmares, depression and wanted to be left alone. Eventually LeClair gave up her job to care for him.

"He didn't want to sleep anymore because he didn't want the dreams," she said. "We had to leave the lights on for him at night."

Schouten's depression eventually led to a two-day vanishing act and an attempt to kill himself with a mix of pills and alcohol. LeClair said she has been battling the military for help ever since.

"I was appalled at the treatment he received, or should I say, didn't receive," she said. "I was astonished. It was beyond my wildest imagination or my wildest nightmare. In all honesty, Afghanistan was hard. But this is hell."

LeClair recently brought her concerns to the top, meeting with Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier. He told her the military is doing its best but grappling with a tremendous "volume" of such cases.

Figures from Veterans Affairs show the caseload is now 10,881 veterans or armed forces members with a psychiatric condition, of whom 7,106 are diagnosed with PTSD. Numbers include vets from previous conflicts, but have been climbing quickly since Canada's Afghanistan mission began in 2002.

Veterans Affairs Minister Greg Thompson said his department is taking care of those in need with financial and clinical programs.

LONG-RUNNING BATTLE

"This was recognized long before my tenure with previous ministers, the need to address that," he said in a recent interview, adding his government is always striving to meet the changing needs of traditional and "new force" vets.

But LeClair said she will demand the government do better when she speaks to the committee today.

"My son has gone through hell," she said. "He didn't anticipate feeling like he was nobody because he has an occupational stress injury."

Copyright © 2008, Canoe Inc. All rights reserved.
Proprietor and Publisher - Sun Media (Toronto) Corporation, 333 King St. E., Toronto, ON, M5A 3X5

This is not good to see, considering the efforts that DND claims to have done to address the issue; such as this thread indicates regarding recruitment efforts to combat the syndrome.


dileas

tess

 

[armyvern]

Tess, DND/CF is making those strides -- they aren't just "claims".

What we need in the way of mental health professionals just are NOT out there to be had ... we can't knit them.

We're trying. The cases are going up rapidly with Afghanistan and the system is stretched all the way through to DVA (VAC). At the same time these cases are going up, we are still in "recovery mode" from years (decades actually) of chronic underfunding, budget cuts, and force reduction plans which dropped our numbers significantly.

Not our fault. Governments reduce budgets and underfund. Soldiers though, as evidenced by Afghanistan, still have to go fight wars despite that and quite often end up with psychological injuries.

There is simply no comparison between now ... and 10 years ago. And, 10 years from now the services that will be available will be incomparable with what we have now.

A lot of people expect there to be a "cure" for PTSD, and when they witness the fact that for some, even with OSIS treatment etc, that it continues ... they believe the system is not working.

For some, the system will always be considered to be "not working" as long as their loved one requires treatment. Sometimes -- that will occur for a lifetime.

It's certainly not a nice injury. It's not an easy injury to deal with either, but insinuations that we are not doing anything aren't correct. Nor are insinuations that we are misleading anyone and are rather sitting back and not trying our damndest ... because we are trying our damndest. There is much more to be done --- but the professionals who can do that ... need to be available, and they just aren't out there to be had in the numbers we currently need them in.

 

[Old Sweat]

They were on Mike Duffy this afternoon. When Duffy raised the possbility that the CDS was talking the good talk, but not producing, the young guy bristled and said, words to the effect, that General Hillier is doing everything he can for us, but the "system" is not reacting. Mom agreed.

I have never seen a young troop who (probably) needs help stick up for the CDS in a situation like this before in my half a century plus experience. I wish him well.

 

[armyvern]

True that Old Sweat.

We need more mental health professionals and we are trying deperately to get them ... there just isn't enough of them out there for us to get "into" the system.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Vern,

I do not disagree with you completely, however, consider it is only right now as we speak that an OSISS office will be opened in the GTA, you have to wonder what are the priorities of DND and VAC.

Imagine one of the troops, who was injured by a landmine waiting as long as this troop to get rehab and prostethics.

Until we see no one complaining, legittimately, about lack of help you can not stand by and tow the party line (That may be harsh, but it was for a lack of a better comment).  You have to realize there is a challenge and be willing to voice it, that way all parties involved know where to address the problem.

I suffered for over a decade, yes, however it was only two years ago that I sought help. I was tormented by the lack of knowledge within DND and The VAC with regards to PTSD, and if you heard some of the comments made you too would have lost your raspberries.  I can imagine what some of these guys must be going through.

Either way, I am still appalled that this is happenening to the extent described by the people involved, and that it has been allowed to go as far as the family meeting with media and members of government, as opposed to medical personell

dileas

tess           

 

[armyvern]

Vern,

I do not disagree with you completely, however, consider it is only right now as we speak that an OSISS office will be opened in the GTA, you have to wonder what are the priorities of DND and VAC.

Imagine one of the troops, who was injured by a landmine waiting as long as this troop to get rehab and prostethics.

Until we see no one complaining, legittimately, about lack of help you can not stand by and tow the party line (That may be harsh, but it was for a lack of a better comment).  You have to realize there is a challenge and be willing to voice it, that way all parties involved know where to address the problem.

I suffered for over a decade, yes, however it was only two years ago that I sought help. I was tormented by the lack of knowledge within DND and The VAC with regards to PTSD, and if you heard some of the comments made you too would have lost your raspberries.  I can imagine what some of these guys must be going through.

Either way, I am still appalled that this is happenening to the extent described by the people involved, and that it has been allowed to go as far as the family meeting with media and members of government, as opposed to medical personell

dileas

tess           

The lack of an OSISS office does not indicate a lack of treatment. Troops were and are sent downtown to civilian facilities in the meantime.

It has nothing to do with towing the party line Tess ... and quite frankly, I'm getting tired of that card being thrown out on the table every time PTSD is brought up. I've already noted how bad it was 10 years ago compared to now.

The fact of the matter is:

WE CAN NOT KNIT MENTAL HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS. "WE" being Canada -- this lack of qualified mental health professionals is a crisis accross the nation, not just in the military.

No matter how much it would be nice that there be enough qualified mental healthcare professionals in Canada to handle our soldiers and the civilian populace. There just isn't. They don't exist. Not in the numbers required for the civilian OR military sector. Is that the CF/DNDs fault?

If there's only 10 000 of them in Canada and we need 20 000 ... that does not mean that we don't care and aren't trying. The qualified personnel to handle this do not exist --- they aren't there, not enough of them. 

 

[the 48th regulator]

The lack of an OSISS office does not indicate a lack of treatment. Troops were and are sent downtown to civilian facilities in the meantime.

It has nothing to do with towing the party line Tess ... and quite frankly, I'm getting tired of that card being thrown out on the table every time PTSD is brought up. I've already noted how bad it was 10 years ago compared to now.

The fact of the matter is:

WE CAN NOT KNIT MENTAL HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS. "WE" being Canada -- this lack of qualified mental health professionals is a crisis accross the nation, not just in the military.

No matter how much it would be nice that there be enough qualified mental healthcare professionals in Canada to handle our soldiers and the civilian populace. There just isn't. They don't exist. Not in the numbers required for the civilian OR military sector. Is that the CF/DNDs fault?

If there's only 10 000 of them in Canada and we need 20 000 ... that does not mean that we don't care and aren't trying. The qualified personnel to handle this do not exist --- they aren't there, not enough of them. 

And I am getting tired of saying that the effort is being made, and that should suffice.  What do the people who suffer in the mean time do?  Let's be candid here, I have applauded the efforts made by DND/VAC, but I do not believe that the effort is being tackled as aggressively as it should be.  Facilitators and group therapy can be initiated and trained at a much lower level than qualified Phsycholigists, however, what is stopping the effort of this type of training?

We are just going to mudsling back and forth, but when I see this in the media, why has it been allowed for this to go so far.  Because of the lack of trained professionals?  What are the recruitment efforts being made?  Where are they searching for qualified experts?  Are they reaching outside of our borders?

I want to know exactly what is being done, until then, well it all just noise.

dileas

tess

 

[armyvern]

And I am getting tired of saying that the effort is being made, and that should suffice.   What do the people who suffer in the mean time do?  Let's be candid here, I have applauded the efforts made by DND/VAC, but I do not believe that the effort is being tackled as aggressively as it should be.  Facilitators and group therapy can be initiated and trained at a much lower level than qualified Phsycholigists, however, what is stopping the effort of this type of training?

We are just going to mudsling back and forth, but when I see this in the media, why has it been allowed for this to go so far.  Because of the lack of trained professionals?  What are the recruitment efforts being made?  Where are they searching for qualified experts?  Are they reaching outside of our borders?

I want to know exactly what is being done, until then, well it all just noise.

dileas

tess

And, with that -- I highly suggest a reread of my first post in here. You have a very nasty habit of becoming defensive and nasty when this subject comes up. So much so, that you can even disregard one's posts (like my original) where I flat out state that "so much more has to be done" and throw out the usual accusations of someone "towing the party line" and "saying that the effort is being made, and that should suffice."

I have NEVER done either.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Then I stand corrected.

Good luck to the soldier, and I hope he finds the help he is looking for.  Kudos to Ann LeClair for looking out for her son.

You have a very nasty habit of becoming defensive and nasty when this subject comes up.

I wonder why I do......years of suffering from a wretched system must have left a bad taste in my mouth.  Sorry if that doesn't bode well with you.

dileas

tess

 

[armyvern]

I wonder why I do......years of suffering from a wretched system must have left a bad taste in my mouth.  Sorry if that doesn't bode well with you.

PM ... sooooooooooo inbound.

 

[the 48th regulator]

PM ... sooooooooooo inbound.

Pm responded.

dileas

tess

 

[1feral1]

As usual, the media at its worst. Typical how they can twist this around to suit themselves and use it in an anti-war spin theme, making the CF look like it can't handle this. This could have been presented much more positive, but I feel whoever reported this seen ' the movie Born on the Fourth of July' and is looking for ratings more than the truth.  Im am sure the system is trying to improve, as this is a first for Canada, a full on modern war, with a system which never had to cope with the magnitude such as presently going on.  I can comment no more on this, but only rely on what I have read. Sorry Tess, you had a bad go, and hopefully things have improved since your injuries.

IMHO:

As much as the post op deployment psych screens are mandatory, they are only benifical if the member is honest and open, and genuinely reports how he/she is truly feeling.

They are only effective as the person presenting the problem, and lots of blokes tend to keep things inside, as this is where some problems begin small and then fester like an open wound.  The psychs are not mind readers, and some of us can hide how we feel very well.

Therefore one has to want to be helped, and accept this, plus the issues he has.

Moms will be moms, and although her son has experienced war and is a man, he is still her baby in her eyes. Too bad the media got on to her, or vice versa.

If none of us are changed by our time spent overseas, something aint quite right.

One year on and I still have issues, but over the past 12 months these have deminshed to less frequent events of insomnia, nightsweats, anxiety, the odd intense nightmare etc. I live alone and often, even on a weekend the only creatures I talk to are my two Siamese cats. So it can be difficult occasionally, especially if I feel I have to get something off my chest. There is the VVCS (VN Vets Counciling Svc) here, but I have not gone that far, and I tend to keep things in.  I have all but given up the whisky except for the odd time, like this past weekend at the B&S thing I was at.. I tend to talk to other Vets who have been there, and we even get a laugh out and deal with topics that way. I am comfortable with that.

I hope this bloke in question sorts himself out, and does what he has to to get back into a better lifestyle.

My 2 cents.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Tess..........reel it in there son.

Don't let the bad taste in your mouth become an abscess......there aren't enough medical personal for just about any disease one can name, why would this be any different?

Its improving, and much as you don't want to acknowledge it, that is far better than most things medical right now.

Example,
Tue, 2008-04-08 06:30
Amid a budget crunch, up to 220 jobs will be eliminated at Ajax and Pickering hospital and Scarborough's Centenary hospital.
The cuts at the two hospitals, both of which form the Rouge Valley Health System, reportedly include 72 registered nursing positions and 36 beds and are included in a deficit elimination plan that's expected to save $25 million over the next three years.

 

[Gunner98]

I think this is a accurate, reasonable statement from SCONDVA Hearing

39:2 Committee Evidence - NDDN-16 (2008/3/6) 1710
"BGen Hilary Jaeger:
    We often find ourselves—I'll be honest—in the position of asking about the point at which any resource is better than no resource. We can't create the perfect mental health system out of thin air. If there aren't resources in the area to tap into, then you have to ask whether we should move the patient. That has pros and cons. We know we can find the right resources in Ottawa, but that's not necessarily an attractive option either."

 

[mckee19]

Is there an option of sending troops outside of our borders for treatment? or how about incentives for the docters we need to come to canada and make a living?

just a couple options that came to the top of my mind. 

 

[Yrys]

Outside of border, where ? And wouldn't that cause more stress to the ones being ship out ?

As for out-of country doctors, from which country, who could do it in the budget "constraint",
without needing levelling of capacity, adaptation to new country, new situation in the army and/or mental fields  ?

I presume out-of country doctors would require more money for moving here and/or training to their new environment,
thus reducing the $ for local doctors...

In Québec, civil side, some out-of Canada, immigrants, professionals can't get work because their qualifications take years to be recognise by
Professional Corporations. Maybe some of them can be use by the army, if the laws permit it, which I don't know.

Add :

Facilitators and group therapy can be initiated and trained at a much lower level than qualified Phsycholigists

Therapies, on the other hand, as point out by the 48th regulator, don't have to be made by psychologists. In the civil side,
therapies are an unregulated land for the moment. Anyone can title themself "therapeute". Some hospitals use psychiatrist nurse,
some schools use social workers.  There is a pool of related professionals that can be used for therapies, without using
"mechanics that put papers on theirs walls saying they are therapeutes" (an example a psychology teacher use in one course).

 

[Armymedic]

Is there an option of sending troops outside of our borders for treatment? or how about incentives for the docters we need to come to canada and make a living?  

Outside our borders to where. The US and Britian are struggling under the same issues.

As for "Not doing enough". When is it going to be enough? Because "all we can with what we have" is obviously not enough for many....

 

[mckee19]

Outside of border, where ? And wouldn't that cause more stress to the ones being ship out ?

As for out-of country doctors, from which country, who could do it in the budget "constraint",
without needing levelling of capacity, adaptation to new country, new situation in the army and/or mental fields  ?

I presume out-of country doctors would require more money for moving here and/or training to their new environment,
thus reducing the $ for local doctors...

In Québec, civil side, some out-of Canada, immigrants, professionals can't get work because their qualifications take years to be recognise by
Professional Corporations. Maybe some of them can be use by the army, if the laws permit it, which I don't know.

Add :

Therapies, on the other hand, as point out by the 48th regulator, don't have to be made by psychologists. In the civil side,
therapies are an unregulated land for the moment. Anyone can title themself "therapeute". Some hospitals use psychiatrist nurse,
some schools use social workers.  There is a pool of related professionals that can be used for therapies, without using
"mechanics that put papers on theirs walls saying they are therapeutes" (an example a psychology teacher use in one course).

Very true, those were just a few things that came to mind. I was just wondering if they had been looked at or were a viable short term solution.

 

[Yrys]

As for "Not doing enough". When is it going to be enough? Because "all we can with what we have" is obviously not enough for many....

"When is it going to be enough?"

Personally, considering the "sameness" that PTDS share with depression, I would say never (without sarcasm) until ALL options
have been researched and explored, which will never be. It is an horrible sickness, and treatment options research should be an ongoing
process. I'm not saying which is which in the army, being civy, I've no idea ...

 

[the 48th regulator]

Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.


http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2008/04/09/5234471-sun.html

Soldiers fighting secret war

Psychologically wounded troops told to 'suck it up'

By KATHLEEN HARRIS, NATIONAL BUREAU CHIEF


 
OTTAWA -- A prevailing "suck-it-up, soldier" attitude in the military prevents many Canadian troops from getting the help they need for psychological war wounds, a victim's mother told MPs yesterday.

Ann LeClair said when her 24-year-old son Cpl. Travis Schouten returned from Afghanistan with post-traumatic stress disorder, he was told to "suck it up" and get back to work. The Sarnia woman shared her family's living nightmare of fear, bizarre behaviour and a suicide attempt with the Commons defence committee studying the PTSD issue.

"I'm appalled that this attitude continues and is rampant in the military," she said after the closed-door hearing. "It isn't at the top levels. The top levels of administration seem to have very well thought-out plans, but the difficulty lies in that there is no measurement to show that this will go down through the chain of command."

LeClair said her son and many other soldiers like him received inadequate psychiatric care for battle scars. Services and attitudes vary from base to base, and soldiers are often met with disbelief.

Schouten said it never crossed his mind that he would return home from Kandahar so psychologically scarred.

Yesterday he urged the Canadian public to join his family's demands for better help.

"I'm not able to go back to Afghanistan. I've kind of lost my identity. I'm not a soldier anymore and I'm learning how to be somebody again. There's other guys who I've seen doing the same thing, and my mom is fighting for each and every one of those guys," he said.

Ex-Master Cpl. Ken Raymond, a reservist from Valcartier who served in Bosnia in 1992-1993, has been enduring a "living hell" since his tour. He was diagnosed with PTSD in 1994 but did not learn about his diagnosis until 2006. He was treated for "depression" in the civilian system.

"Every day what we saw ... not being able to help the people. Our hands were tied behind our backs all the time," he told Sun Media, choking back emotion. "We couldn't help the refugees. We saw villages being bombarded. We saw some pretty bad stuff and we weren't able to do anything about it."

At the time, he was told it was "all in his head." Fifteen years later, Raymond still suffers from anxiety, sleeplessness, hypervigilance and flashbacks.

Through his spokesman, Defence Minister Peter MacKay said the government considers health needs of soldiers a "top priority," including mental health. The CF is taking "decisive steps" to develop new ways to help those suffering from PTSD, and the government has earmarked $98 million on mental health initiatives in the military, including hiring an extra 218 mental health practitioners.

NDP MP Dawn Black said Canada must do more.

"When Canadians send soldiers into a dangerous situation and they come back to Canada with specific injuries, particularly mental health injuries, we must do everything possible to treat those injuries and to ensure the very best quality of life," she said.


Same reporter, and Newspaper chain, more information.

Maybe we are looking at this all wrong.  Rather than me criticize DND with regards to seeking their help, DND should put a focus on educating the serving members that a "Suck it up" attitude does not help.  As it has been shown by the multiple posts here, DND is making the effort to find the medical help and are held back due to the lack of qualified professionals in Canada. 

However, the negative effects caused by the peers of the suffering soldier are just aggravating the situation.  An approach to changing the attitudes will be a more cost effective solution, and will aid in the wait as we find help for the soldiers.

dileas

tess