• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Non-Effective Strength (NES): Minimum Attendance

dapaterson

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
6,411
Points
1,090
My understanding (which, together with $2, will get you a double double at Timmies) is that the NES period begins the date of the CO's signature.  Prone to abuse?  Yep.

Per 20.04:

3.12 Non-Effective Strength (NES)
1. Except for a member of the PRL, a Res F member shall be declared NES when their unauthorized absence from duty has exceeded 30 days, during which time no fewer than three duty periods were conducted by the unit. A period during which a member has been declared NES does not count toward qualifying service for promotion, incentive pay, Canadian Forces' Decoration or clasp, or the RFRG. NES shall not be approved retroactively.


ED&T is supposed to be approved in advance; per 20.04:

3.11 Exempt Duty and Training (ED&T)
1. All requests for ED&T shall be in writing through the chain of command prior to the ED&T start date. Except in exceptional circumstances, such as emergencies that cause the member to be absent for more than 30 days, requests shall not be approved/granted retroactively;

 

TheSnake

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
For Class A, that it's a minimum of one parade night a month(once per 30 days)  correct?
 

RedcapCrusader

Banned
Banned
Reaction score
1
Points
0
TheSnake said:
For Class A, that it's a minimum of one parade night a month(once per 30 days)  correct?

Most units have policy in place that requires members to attend at least one period of duty every 30 days in order to remain off of Non-Effective Strength, which could result in administrative action up to and including being released.

If it's work/school related, some units are okay with stretching that 30 day period a little bit more, but if you're expecting to have frequent long stretches of absence, you should look into ED&T.

Either way, you should sitting down with your Chain of Command to find out what they are flexible with offering, and what the NES policy is for that unit.
 

TheSnake

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
LunchMeat said:
Most units have policy in place that requires members to attend at least one period of duty every 30 days in order to remain off of Non-Effective Strength, which could result in administrative action up to and including being released.

So what I gather from this if you show up at least once per 30 days/a month you are fine, note I always communicate if I am coming in or not.
 

TheSnake

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
If I am not mistaking so long as you communicate(email/phone etc) with you're CoC that you are not coming in would they still NES you?

From what I understand in order to get an NES/5f is to be a no show, and no communicating  correct?
 

PuckChaser

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Mentor
Reaction score
1,562
Points
1,060
You can communicate all you want, but if you dont show up to meet your units minimum requirements they can NES you even with you giving lots of notice. If you cannot parade for a long period of time, ask for ED&T or release. With the expediated recruitment of reservists now, there's no reason to hold a position for someone who can only work one Thursday night every 2 months.
 

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
4,435
Points
1,110
TheSnake said:
So what I gather from this if you show up at least once per 30 days/a month you are fine, note I always communicate if I am coming in or not.

Not necessarily. Some units enforce attendance much more strictly than that. Mine expect 75% training night attendance and all exercises, with two weeks written notice requesting permission to be absent. They’re reasonable and flexible, however they have no time for people who show up too infrequently to be useful. There is an administrative process in place to correct deficiencies in attendance.
 

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
3,271
Points
1,060
It may be covered in MMs link but it's been pointed out here that reservists can be ordered by their chain of command to work up to 12 days (training nights? a month and can be charged if they don't. The only catch is the charge would be in a civilian court and no one would waste their time on that.

Brihard said:
Mine expect 75% training night attendance and all exercises, with two weeks written notice requesting permission to be absent.

Thats awesome but a problem with smaller units may be they're so hard up for numbers that they can't afford to lose anyone. Up to and including rewarding shitty attendance and attitude with good courses and taskings. Especially with the brigades and all their must fill tasks, and everything seems to be must fill :)
 

RedcapCrusader

Banned
Banned
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Jarnhamar said:
It may be covered in MMs link but it's been pointed out here that reservists can be ordered by their chain of command to work up to 12 days (training nights? a month and can be charged if they don't. The only catch is the charge would be in a civilian court and no one would waste their time on that.

It would have to be a significant case for a CO to order someone to 12 days of work/training, and would either be under the guise of OP LENTUS or some sort of activation under the Emergency Measures Act.

I highly doubt a CO would do that, and if they did they would probably seek Administrative action instead. No Court Clerk or Crown Prosecutor would ever accept a charge like that unless it was an AWA of significance (Regular Force, deployed ops, or national emergency).

Pretty easy, they don't show up, admin release with negative release code.
 

Remius

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
3,406
Points
1,090
Jarnhamar said:
Thats awesome but a problem with smaller units may be they're so hard up for numbers that they can't afford to lose anyone. Up to and including rewarding shitty attendance and attitude with good courses and taskings. Especially with the brigades and all their must fill tasks, and everything seems to be must fill :)

If the guy isn't showing up what difference does that make.  You can't fill tasks with people that won't show. They are a more of a burden than an asset. 
 

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
3,271
Points
1,060
Remius said:
If the guy isn't showing up what difference does that make.  You can't fill tasks with people that won't show. They are a more of a burden than an asset.

Some people only show for the taskings and units would rather send them, undeserved as it is, because they're afraid to send vac no-fill responses.

I would imagine having an extra 30 people on paper even though they may shown up once a month looks better than not having numbers on paper.
 

ModlrMike

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
838
Points
960
Jarnhamar said:
I would imagine having an extra 30 people on paper even though they may shown up once a month looks better than not having numbers on paper.

Only marginally. The yearly allocation for SWE is driven by the prior year's parade state. Folks who don't parade drag down the average and impact the bottom line. Which in turn reduces the amount of money available to pay troops in the next year.
 

runormal

Sr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
ModlrMike said:
Only marginally. The yearly allocation for SWE is driven by the prior year's parade state. Folks who don't parade drag down the average and impact the bottom line. Which in turn reduces the amount of money available to pay troops in the next year.

Slight tangent, but does the units funding change if people on CLS B show up for "ClS A work" (i.e parades, excercise). Etc.
 

dapaterson

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
6,411
Points
1,090
runormal said:
Slight tangent, but does the units funding change if people on CLS B show up for "ClS A work" (i.e parades, excercise). Etc.

Short answer is "it depends".  Every div and every brigade does their funding a little different.
 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
4,403
Points
1,040
Jarnhamar said:
It may be covered in MMs link but it's been pointed out here that reservists can be ordered by their chain of command to work up to 12 days (training nights? a month and can be charged if they don't. The only catch is the charge would be in a civilian court and no one would waste their time on that.
. . .

Just a small point but QR&O 9.04(2) provides the following:

(2) Subject to any limitations prescribed by the Chief of the Defence Staff, a member of the Primary Reserve may be ordered to train each year on Class "B" Reserve Service prescribed under subparagraph (1)(b) of article 9.07 (Class "B" Reserve Service) for a period not exceeding 15 days and on Class "A" Reserve Service (see article 9.06 - Class "A" Reserve Service), for a period not exceeding 60 days.

:cheers:
 

ModlrMike

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
838
Points
960
dapaterson said:
Short answer is "it depends".  Every div and every brigade does their funding a little different.

Except you can't pay someone both Class A and Class B at the same time. Class B members typically don't count towards the parade state because they're usually paid from a different fin code.

Of course my experience is only from the NAVRES perspective, I don't know what the ARAF and Militia are doing.
 

ontheedge

Jr. Member
Reaction score
0
Points
0
FJAG said:
Just a small point but QR&O 9.04(2) provides the following:

:cheers:

Um, say what Willis??  You telling me a CO can order a meek Reservist to go on a two week training exercise to Gagetown after the holidays or at some other random time?
 

mariomike

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Subscriber
Mentor
Reaction score
607
Points
1,260
ontheedge said:
You telling me a CO can order a meek Reservist to go on a two week training exercise to Gagetown after the holidays or at some other random time?

For reference to the discussion,

Reserve Service
Obligation to Serve
9.04 - TRAINING AND DUTY
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-queens-regulations-orders-vol-01/ch-09.page#cha-009-04
Date modified: 2017-11-24

 

FJAG

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
4,403
Points
1,040
ontheedge said:
Um, say what Willis??  You telling me a CO can order a meek Reservist to go on a two week training exercise to Gagetown after the holidays or at some other random time?

Absolutely.

And, over and above any administrative action, Part VII of the National Defence Act lists those offences for which a service member may be tried by a civilian court. With respect to reservists and training, s 294 provides:

Failure to attend parade

294 (1) Every officer or non-commissioned member of the reserve force who without lawful excuse neglects or refuses to attend any parade or training at the place and hour appointed therefor is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction for each offence, if an officer, to a fine not exceeding fifty dollars and, if a non-commissioned member, to a fine not exceeding twenty-five dollars.

Each absence an offence

(2) Absence from any parade or training referred to in subsection (1) is, in respect of each day on which the absence occurs, a separate offence.

R.S., 1985, c. N-5, s. 294; R.S., 1985, c. 31 (1st Supp.), s. 60.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/n-5/page-60.html#docCont

:cheers:
 
Top