Ontario Health "Premium"

[HItorMiss]

That's right...Alberta can AFFORD to reimburse it HitorMiss, they have shotloads of workers there paying in.

Too bad many CF members can't AFFORD to live there just to save the minimal amount they pay out to OHIP...they'd be so much happier then.   :

Population of Ontario and Alberta in 2006

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo02a.htm?sdi=population

Summary:

Ontario:12,687.0
Alberta:1,177.8

Employment rates

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/labor07b.htm
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/labor07c.htm

Summary:

Ontario:
Men: 65.0%
Woman: 55.6%

Alberta:
Men: 76.9%
Woman: 64.6%

So ummm exactly which Provence is making more money in TAX for all things? :

 

[EW]

Vern's point is bang on,

Whether it is your spouse, extended family, or the poor immigrant couple who can't afford health care, those of us who make a decent living wage have a responsibility to pay into the health care system.  When it comes to health care, I wouldn't expect much support from the Canadian public.  In order for the govt to be held accountable, this has to get traction in the press; and having to pay a health care tax, is just not something that outrages the public.  Right or wrong.  Plus - hasn't the Ontario Legislature hit their summer recess yet?  Only hope to hold the Premier accountable is to bring it up next session.

I specifically mention 'poor immigrant couple' because it usually solicits comments that the vast majority of them are living off a system they haven't paid into.  However, in another 20-years, or so, I'm hoping that their educated and well paid, first-generation Canadian, sons/daughters will be paying the taxes that will ensure I receive health care in my old age.

I was however, very glad to see the govt live up to its obligations in Pembroke with the extra dollars they reluctantly pumped into that health care centre for kids.  Specifically those kids having a hard time dealing with a parent's deployment, and the casualties tied to Pet.

 

[EW]

EW

If that is to be the case, then the Province should issue CF Members OHIP Cards, like all other residents of the Province, and end the waiting time that a Retire CF Member may face in the future when they apply for such a card.  Once upon a time members of the CF did have those cards.  They do not now.

You might have a good point there George.  My wife is still serving, so I look forward to seeing where the CF does go with health care. 

I am happy to report though that my experience with OHIP has been a positive one thus far.  Although I gave my leadership plenty of advance notice, I pulled plug with 30-days official notice (waiting on a civi job opportunity), and was worried I wouldn't get my OHIP set up in time.  I went in to get my card, and the pleasant lady at the counter promised me that I should see it in the mail in 5 business days.  True to her word the card was at my front door in one week - the day before release.

She even thanked me for having served.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Comparing the health "premiums" paid by individuals in different provinces is not always straightforward, since the definitions are different as well as the legislation authorizing them. 

There are two provinces that currently require eligible participants of their provincial health plans to pay premiums, Alberta and British Columbia.  These premiums are assessed on the basis of eligibility (and participation level) and are mandated by the legislation authorizing those provinces' health insurance plans.  If you want to have valid health insurance you have to keep paying the premiums (if you cease or miss paying even by one payment your coverage will not be valid if you visit a doctor's office). 

When Ontario introduced the Ontario Health Premium it did so under its provincial income tax act, therefore it is treated differently.  All taxpayers in Ontario (whether eligible to participate in the OHIP or not) are subject to this premium (..TAX) depending on their income level. http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/english/media/2004/bk-ohp.html#OHP

Employers
Some existing collective agreements refer to coverage of the old OHIP premiums. However, unlike the old OHIP premiums, the new premium would be a tax on individuals under the Income Tax Act. Whether the Ontario Health Premium would be captured by those agreements would depend on the interpretation of those agreements.

Although it might be possible for employees to negotiate with their employers to be reimbursed for the premium as part of their compensation, it would be considered a taxable benefit to the employee and would be subject to personal income tax.

That is the difference.  In Alberta and BC an individual is paying a fee for coverage under an insurance plan.  In Ontario the individual is paying a tax whether he is covered or not.

 

[armyvern]

Off the deepend Moe?? I think not.

You are a taxpayer who resides in Ontario.

I am talking about the fact that the CF should not be paying for Provincial health care as stated in the Canada Health Act. 

You want your cake and you want to eat it too.

The CF budget is CANADIAN taxpayers money, not yours personally.

I absolutely agree that the millions of Canadian taxpayers out there (including you and me) through our federal taxes are contibuting to the costs of treating CF members injured due to their military service to the country, that is part and parcel of serving on their behalfs.

But ...

Why the hell should those millions of Canadian taxpayers pay a portion of their hardearned monies to pay for a CF members injuries/illness' that are NOT related to their service to the country?? Those very taxpayers are paying the exact same federal taxes as you are, and are also paying a Provincial premium. You want them to cover 100% of your healthcare costs for things not related at all to your service to the Country, which is what is happening by them paying fed taxes and provincial premiums while you only want to pay fed taxes.

They, by the same arguement, do not benefit from having access to 2 healthcare systems like you do. And they pay taxes AND a provincial premium...you pay taxes, but advocate that you should not have to pay another dime like all the rest of taxpaying citizens do.
When is the CF going to start re-imbursing the millions of dollars to those Canadian taxpayers from the portion of their federal taxes that goes to pay for non-service related healthcare costs the CF budget covers for you? That's fair isn't it? Shouldn't you (because YOU are the one benefitting from that) be the one paying for it? Why should they? They can be 2 civvies married to each other with no kids living in Ontario...why should a portion of their taxes pay for your non-service injury/illness related healthcare while you pay only taxes? That is like the pot calling the kettle black if I ever saw it.

And the facts are, you DO have access to both. You can indeed walk into any hospital in this country (including Ontario) and present your ID Card and/or Blue Cross card and receive healthcare services 24/7. You don't have to have an OHIP card or any other provincial healthcare card to be able to do that. The fact that we don't physically have a provincial health care card means diddly squat. You (because you are a member of the CF) get to access those provincial services. Not a single civvy hospital would deny you treatment.

But, don't be surprised if the CF sends you the bill for accessing those servcies outside of those CF regulations. It is the CF regulations that prevent you from going to the civvy hospital inside of normal working hours when access to the CF Health Svcs is available, or outside of an emergency.

As for Ontario double-dipping...not quite accurate. Yep the CF budget pays for us, but then The FEDERAL level takes that all into account when they decide how much money each province in turn receives from Federal coffers as federal-transfer credits of monies to each provincial healthcare fund.

Back when I was single and posted to NS, I was deducted provincial health care premiums (and was only re-imbursed a percentage of what I paid into it ~I got back something like 23 bucks a year) despite the fact that I never used a civilian facility in that province.

Then in NB (where neither I nor my husband were charged anything for healthcare) my son was diagnosed with cancer simultaneous to our move to Ontario (where my husband and I both paid OHIP). NB did not charge me for those services availed to my son, nor did Ontario (over and above our OHIP). I've also had cancer ... twice (neither of which were related to smoking I'll note). This was dealt with through Provincial facilities, not CF ones. I was placed on the provincial waiting list (3-4 months) awaiting surgery to remove the tumor from inside the left side of my head. I received a call 2 weeks later ... to report to the Ottawa General at 0400 the next morning because they had a cancellation and could get me in for my surgery.
2 years later, I was again using provincial facilities due to another type of cancer.

I had my 5 year cancer-free check-up this past December. My son has been 9 years. Yet, I still have to report for annual MRIs and CT scans (in civilian hospitals!!) as the type of tumor I had in my head has a high recurrance rate. If you think you'll ever convince me that I should bitch about paying what amounts to nickles and dimes each month during my postings in Ontario, or bitch about the fact that I was only reimbursed a portion of what I paid into provincial healthcare during my posting in NS, you've got another thing coming.

Instead I sit back and thank my lucky stars that I live in Canada where I don't have to pay the total expenses myself. The little that I have contributed to OHIP and NS doesn't even come close (and never will) to covering MY costs on that provincial system, let alone my sons.

Yes, indeed, I have more important things to worry about than bitching about the small amount I pay into the healthcare system for the benefits that I (and you) get from it. It is my sincere hope that you never experience something similar to actually have to enjoy the benefits of that small amount you pay into it.

Canadians, maybe one day they'll realize how good they actually have it.

 

[AVS Tech]

HitorMiss, I agree with you for the most part, Serving CF members should be exempt from this tax, but not their families. however your statement that "Alberta has a lower tax rate then Ontario" is not correct. Below you will see the rates of all provinces and Territories in Canada, and clearly you can see that Ontario has the second lowest rates (BC is the lowest). I am currently serving and living in Alberta. I recalculated my Income Tax for last year using all provinces (using Quicktax 2006). Even with the OHP added in, my overall taxes were still lower in Ontario. However BC was the lowest.
In my opinion, I still believe that serving CF Members should be exempt this tax as all of our needs are covered by the Federal Government. Any services that we get from the province is fully reimbursed to them by the CF Health Care system.

Provinces / Territories Rate(s)

Newfoundland and Labrador
9.64% on the first $29,886 of taxable income, +
14.98% on the next $29,886, +
17.26% on the amount over $59,772

Prince Edward Island
9.8% on the first $31,369 of taxable income, +
13.8% on the next $31,370, +
16.7% on the amount over $62,739

Nova Scotia
8.79% on the first $29,590 of taxable income, +
14.95% on the next $29,590, +
16.67% on the next $33,820 +
17.5% on the amount over $93,000

New Brunswick
9.68% on the first $34,186 of taxable income, +
14.82% on the next $34,188, +
16.52% on the next $42,787, +
17.84% on the amount over $111,161

Ontario
6.05% on the first $35,488 of taxable income, +
9.15% on the next $35,488, +
11.16% on the amount over $70,976

Manitoba
10.9% on the first $30,544 of taxable income, +
13% on the next $34,456, +
17.4% on the amount over $65,000

Saskatchewan
11% on the first $38,405 of taxable income, +
13% on the next $71,324, +
15% on the amount over $109,729

Alberta 10% of taxable income

British Columbia
5.7% on the first $34,397 of taxable income, +
8.65% on the next $34,397, +
11.1% on the next $10,190, +
13% on the next $16,925, +
14.7% on the amount over $95,909

Yukon
7.04% on the first $37,178 of taxable income, +
9.68% on the next $37,179, +
11.44% on the next $46,530, +
12.76% on the amount over $120,887

Northwest Territories
5.9% on the first $35,315 of taxable income, +
8.6% on the next $35,316, +
12.2% on the next $44,199, +
14.05% on the amount over $114,830

Nunavut
4% on the first $37,178 of taxable income, +
7% on the next $37,179, +
9% on the next $46,530, +
11.5% on the amount over $120,887

No matter what we pay, we all should be happy and proud to be Canadian. The envy of the world.

 

[armyvern]

AVS,

Again, the fallacy in your arguement:

CF Members should be exempt this tax as all of our needs are covered by the Federal Government. Any services that we get from the province is fully reimbursed to them by the CF Health Care system.

is that the federal system/CF healthcare system is Canadian Taxpayers monies. That means that millions of Canadian taxpayers across this nation are paying their fed taxes and provincial premiums to cover their and your healthcare costs; while you (ie the CF member) pay only fed taxes towards your costs. How's that fair?? Especially when your injury is NOT service related and/or is the result of stupidity??

Get ready for change folks, because the CF system is already beginning to look at that "non-service related costs" bit. Look at the VAC thread and read the part about MOs not going to be filling out any more paperwork/forms at no cost anymore for CF members if it's not paperwork relating to a CF requirement or task. The onus shouldn't be on the taxpayer to cover that stuff for you ... but they currently are, and judging by the comments here, you expect them to ... even though you don't want to contribute a single dime yourselves towards it over and above your fed taxes (that those civvies also pay). I guess only the civvies should have to do both (ie pay both taxes and provincial premiums) to benefit from only one system, unlike yourselves who benefit from access to two healthcare systems but only want to pay taxes.

 

[DirtyDog]

Sorry for the thread revival, but has there been any change in this issue?

I've been wondering why it is that I pay the Ontario Health Premium for some time now and finally did a search on here.

It irks me.  You may call me selfish, but I hate the entire welfare state mentality that justifies this to most people (apparently).  I guess some people are satisfied with happily paying more and more taxes and not demanding more for our dollar.  I have zero guilt finding as many (legal) ways possible of not giving the government my money.  God knows they get enough of it....

 

[captloadie]

Try living overseas and still paying for it, just because the last province I lived in was Ontario. I guess I have to look at it as investing in the future so when I return there is still a healthcare system.

 

[PMedMoe]

Try living overseas and still paying for it, just because the last province I lived in was Ontario.

I don't think it has anything to do with the last province you lived in.  I believe all overseas pay is taxed through Ontario (Ottawa).

 

[George Wallace]

I don't think it has anything to do with the last province you lived in.  I believe all overseas pay is taxed through Ontario (Ottawa).

.......as your Postal Address is Belleville, ON.    ;D

 

[Pusser]

.......as your Postal Address is Belleville, ON.    ;D

That has nothing to do with it.  Things may have changed, but the last time I was on an overseas posting, we were "deemed residents" and our provincial portion was a blended rate (which tends to be close to the Ontario rate).  Unlike provincial taxes paid by folks living in Canada, this money does not go directly to your province of residence (because you don't have one), but is instead distributed through transfer payments.  If you're posted overseas, Belleville is a mailing address and that's it.  Your residence as of 31 December (which is how you are taxed) is wherever you were physically living on that day.  Deemed residents should not be paying an Ontario Health Premium because that only shows up on the Ontario Provincial Tax form and you shouldn't be completing and submitting that form.

 

[Zoomie]

Deemed residents should not be paying an Ontario Health Premium because that only shows up on the Ontario Provincial Tax form and you shouldn't be completing and submitting that form.

Good to know - I'll be in this position next tax year.

 

[captloadie]

I was told the rule is that, yes we are deemed residents, but of the province in which we still have ties. I could probably file a manual return and have it all sorted out, but I'm lazy, and the tax software only works if you have a provincial address, which then makes you a resident of that province. And as I said earlier, I look at it as investing in the province I'll likely have to return to.

 

[CountDC]

I don't think it has anything to do with the last province you lived in.  I believe all overseas pay is taxed through Ontario (Ottawa).

Unless things have changed in the last couple years this is not quite correct.  If you do a small party op through the FSS then you will not pay taxes while overseas.  These Ops are normally 6 months or 1 year and does not involve a move or your family going with you. 

 

[PMedMoe]

Unless things have changed in the last couple years this is not quite correct.  If you do a small party op through the FSS then you will not pay taxes while overseas.  These Ops are normally 6 months or 1 year and does not involve a move or your family going with you.

I was referring to actual postings where the dependents accompany the member.

 

[Pusser]

I was told the rule is that, yes we are deemed residents, but of the province in which we still have ties. I could probably file a manual return and have it all sorted out, but I'm lazy, and the tax software only works if you have a provincial address, which then makes you a resident of that province. And as I said earlier, I look at it as investing in the province I'll likely have to return to.

Each to his own, but I'm puzzled by this approach.  You're paying for something you don't have to.  You will receive no benefit from it and Ontario will not thank you for it.  Furthermore, if you are audited, you will likely have to re-do your taxes anyway as the money will have to be re-distributed

 

[Pusser]

Unless things have changed in the last couple years this is not quite correct.  If you do a small party op through the FSS then you will not pay taxes while overseas.  These Ops are normally 6 months or 1 year and does not involve a move or your family going with you.

When determining provincial income tax, your "residence" is your primary residence.  If you go on an operation, you're generally not moving your dependants or household goods, so your residence remains in Canada and you are taxed accordingly.  It's worth noting that even in Canada, if you go on IR to another province, you are still taxed based on where your dependants reside (i.e. your primary residence).  If you go on an overseas operation, your operations allowances are not taxed because they are earned outside Canada.  You may also be eligible for a tax credit for the rest of your salary if the operation is classed at a certain level, but there is a cap on that depending on your rank level.

 

[dapaterson]

It would be interesting to have a CF member assert that their Statement of Ordinary Residence is the location where they should be taxed; if they vote in Nova Scotia but live in Ontario solely for service reasons, should they not also pay taxes in Nova Scotia?

I seem to recall that US servicemembers pay taxes in their "home" state, not their duty location.


(Note:  This is not tax advice.  I am not an accountant or a tax lawyer.  Anyone taking advice from random people on the internet (even me!) should ahve their head examined).

 

[Pusser]

It would be interesting to have a CF member assert that their Statement of Ordinary Residence is the location where they should be taxed; if they vote in Nova Scotia but live in Ontario solely for service reasons, should they not also pay taxes in Nova Scotia?

I seem to recall that US servicemembers pay taxes in their "home" state, not their duty location.


(Note:  This is not tax advice.  I am not an accountant or a tax lawyer.  Anyone taking advice from random people on the internet (even me!) should ahve their head examined).

The Statement of Ordinary Residence is a device used under the Special Voting Rules of the Elections Act and only applies to that act.  The income Tax Act does not contain a similar provision.  In other words, your "ordinary residence" under the Elections Act is not the same as your "primary residence" under the Income Tax Act.  While it is true that American service members can elect to pay taxes in their "home" state, we do not have the same option  ???.