Ontario Health "Premium"

[armyvern]

Totally disagree Vern.

If your not a military couple and your spouse is working civi side then she is paying the premium and using it, though she is also covered under the Public ServantsHealth Insurance plan(So are your children). So again why is that I am paying for something I will never use? The CF (Though Blue Cross) pays the province direct for any medical care I receive civi side (X-Rays, Hospital stays, etc etc) Again I am pouring money into a system that I will not benefit from at all ever.

Alberta does not make Military members pay into their health tax for this very reason. This is just a money grab by Ontario to help float the health system that much more. I cannot at this time find how much $$$ the CF members posted to Ontario are paying but I am sure that it is not a little amount.

HitorMiss,

You think the very small amount that both you and your wife paid each month into it comes anywhere near covering the cost of your daughters birth?? I've got an eye-opener for you ... you've both already benefitted from those payments more than you will ever contribute into it.

 

[armyvern]

On another note,

Look at it this way, HitorMiss, your daughter comes up to visit; she needs to be admitted to the hospital ...

Are you willing to be billed (and pay for) for her full healthcare costs because you do not contribute to the Provincial plan?? Or should the other voting citizens of Ontario foot her bills?

 

[HItorMiss]

Deepends on how you want to do the Math. If you avg out the amount I have paid since the inseption of the Tax plus that which She paid we more then covered the cost. Now add in how much more I will be paying over the next few years till I get posted (If I get posted out of Ontario) Plus much of the cost of the birth (Hosptial room etc etc) was coverd by the Insurance Plan or out my own pocket. So again argue you all you want the Tax is getting much more out out me CF then the CF ever will get out of it.

 

[HItorMiss]

As a resident of Nova Scotis the bill will be paid by the provience to which she is a resdient of. And again much of her medical cost will be covered by the Insurance plan I pay into just for such an event.

 

[armyvern]

Deepends on how you want to do the Math. If you avg out the amount I have paid since the inseption of the Tax plus that which She paid we more then covered the cost. Now add in how much more I will be paying over the next few years till I get posted (If I get posted out of Ontario) Plus much of the cost of the birth (Hosptial romm etc etc) was coverd by the Insurance Plan or out my own pocket. So again argue you all you want the Tax is gettimg much more out ot eh CF then the CF ever will get out of it.

That is false. Look at my earlier response to PMedMoe re FMAS and transfers.

As to out of your own pocket...sure if you chose to upgarde to a private room over and above that which was covered by your premiums paid, just like every other Canadian. There's nothing wrong with that, it's your choice.

 

[HItorMiss]

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

My last and final point is simply that if other Provinces are exempting the members of the CF why is Ontario will not follow suit? Second again as I pointed out many (not all) CF Couples are not 100% Military and one or the other spouse is paying into the tax anyway. All I am advocating is the Members of the CF do not pay it not the whole family complete.

As for Money transfers and FMAS yup I am sure it is slow but guess what....the money arrives sooner or later it's not like it never ever gets paid. Oh and room upgrades are paid for by me contributing to the private Insurance plan that any other Canadian could get if they wanted to ( not the Public Servant one yes, but a private one certainly) And to upgrade past that I pay out of my own pocket.

 

[armyvern]

HitorMiss,

Getting posted out of Ontario will just have another Province eating up your "savings" (??) in OHIP costs plus much more of your income with .... taxes.

Anyway, I'm hitting the road back to the apartment now ...

hate to post and run.

 

[HItorMiss]

I am sure we will continue this when you arrive back at your place. Till then be safe on your drive.

Oh and you're still wrong 

 

[PMedMoe]

I don't care about paying the d**n tax, (well, yes I do, because it's WRONG), this is what I'm trying to get at:

IAW the Canada Health Act:

The federal government is responsible for: (highlights, mine)

    * setting and administering national principles or standards for the health care system through the Canada Health Act;
    * assisting in the financing of provincial health care services through fiscal transfers;
    * delivering direct health services to specific groups including veterans, native Canadians living on reserves, military personnel, inmates of federal penitentiaries and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police; and
    * fulfilling other health-related functions such as health protection, disease prevention and health promotion.

We as the CF are not supposed to be paying for Provincial health care.  And directly from the CF Health website: (again, highlights are mine)

1. The Constitution Act places responsibility upon the Federal Government for providing medical care to members of the Canadian Forces (CF). This is because the Canada Health Act and the provincial health insurance acts exclude members of the CF from the list of "insured persons" for the purpose of provincial health care coverage. Therefore, the CF provides its members with comprehensive health care comparable to that guaranteed to all Canadian citizens under the Canada Health Act.
The Canada Health Act of 1 April 1984, which applies to all Canadians, states that: "....the primary objective of Canadian health care policy is to protect and restore the physical and mental well-being of the residents of Canada and to facilitate reasonable access to health services without financial or other barriers." the Act further states that insured person means: "....a resident of the province other than a member of the Canadian Forces."

And before anyone gets into the dependents thing again.....I don't have any.

 

[HItorMiss]

Well that certainly says all that needs to be said in plain english doesn't it.....

 

[George Wallace]

My simplistic view on the subject is that the CF Member should not be double taxed.  The CF Member should not be paying this OHIP Tax.  That does not, however, apply for the CF Members dependants.  If they are not members of the CF, then they should be subject to the Tax like any other resident of the Province.  If they are not employed then this will have to come out of the wages of the wage earner, (the CF Member,) like any other household in the Province.  

 

[EW]

"Hit or Miss," why don't you consider it an investment?  You aren't going to be in the CF forever.  At some point, in your far distant future you are going to retire, and be living off the system that hopefully was well maintained while you were off serving your country.  

This is health care we're talking about, not some pork barrel government project.  And yes, of course it isn't the same in every province, some provinces might not tax it directly, but they are definitely getting the money from somewhere, and that probably leads back to the taxpayer.  

Personally, I don't give a crap about the politics of the situation, so much I believe that everyone has certain obligations to society, and health care is one of them.  

By the way, I just retired with 20+ years - leaving the umbrella of CF health care.  Never complained about paying EI or any other benefit I couldn't collect, because I knew this day would come.  Not to say I didn't complain about other taxes, or use of our tax dollars - but not universal health care.

Regards....

 

[George Wallace]

EW

If that is to be the case, then the Province should issue CF Members OHIP Cards, like all other residents of the Province, and end the waiting time that a Retire CF Member may face in the future when they apply for such a card.  Once upon a time members of the CF did have those cards.  They do not now.

 

[armyvern]

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

My last and final point is simply that if other Provinces are exempting the members of the CF why is Ontario will not follow suit? Second again as I pointed out many (not all) CF Couples are not 100% Military and one or the other spouse is paying into the tax anyway. All I am advocating is the Members of the CF do not pay it not the whole family complete.

As for Money transfers and FMAS yup I am sure it is slow but guess what....the money arrives sooner or later it's not like it never ever gets paid. Oh and room upgrades are paid for by me contributing to the private Insurance plan that any other Canadian could get if they wanted to ( not the Public Servant one yes, but a private one certainly) And to upgrade past that I pay out of my own pocket.

Workers pay the OHIP premiums. Civy families have 2 income households too, not just the military. That is an irrelevant point. Working people pay. That's the way it is in a democracy. As for other provinces re-imbursing to Mil mbrs (some reimburse some costs -ie a percentage of what is paid in -... not all), as I said to HitorMiss...they just make up for it in higher provincial tax rates. You see Ontario has lots of workers paying into the healthcare system ... ergo the costs of such do not need to be collected through a higher provincial taxrate. In the END, healthcare costs money ... they will get it out of you either via contributions to OHIP or taxes.

And Moe did you miss my post?? That's right you contribute to private insurance at your choice, and upgrades to rooms past the entitlement at your choice...just like any other Canadian. What's the problem with that??

... You need to research FMAS a bit more ... and learn about transfers.

Yep HitorMiss, that does say it all ... but it sure doesn't say the Military looks after the costs of healthcare for your dependants does it?? OHIP is paid by individual workers ... but it's not paid simply for the benfit of you the individual.

Moe, you have no dependants. That's your choice. You must hate paying property and education taxes too eh?? That's what democracy is all about. I hope you don't have any non-working relatives or parents living in Ontario either who use the healthcare system, because if it weren't for the "employed" in that Province (or any province) paying into the healthcare system; there wouldn't be a healthcare system, and by that reasoning the CF wouldn't have to provide you with squat either.

 

[HItorMiss]

EW look at the Post by Moe

The federal government is responsible for: (highlights, mine)

* delivering direct health services to specific groups including VETERANS, native Canadians living on reserves, military personnel, inmates of federal penitentiaries and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police;

You are a Veteran and as such again are covered by the federal level of Government. My advice is to look into this as you again are paying for something you have no need to.

 

[HItorMiss]

Vern you missed my point about the dependants.... I am not against someone paying into a health tax just that the CF member should not be (IE: if your spouse is a civi she is paying into the tax which will cover the dependant, add in the Private insurance and the Province is getting it's money). And Alberta has a lower tax rate then Ontario and the CF member does not pay into their Health tax at all, so that argument does not hold water with me.

PS: thought you were leaving, you got a long drive get on it will you LMAO!

 

[armyvern]

EW look at the Post by Moe

The federal government is responsible for: (highlights, mine)

* delivering direct health services to specific groups including VETERANS, native Canadians living on reserves, military personnel, inmates of federal penitentiaries and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police;

You are a Veteran and as such again are covered by the federal level of Government. My advice is to look into this as you again are paying for something you have no need to.

But not their dependants. Your OHIP premiums paid benefit your entire family ... not just you.

 

[armyvern]

Vern you missed my point about the dependants.... I am not against someone paying into a health tax just that the CF member should not be (IE: if your spouse is a civi she is paying into the tax which will cover the dependant, add in the Private insurance and the Province is getting it's money). And Alberta has a lower tax rate then Ontario and the CF member does not pay into their Health tax at all, so that argument does not hold water with me.

That's right...Alberta can AFFORD to reimburse it HitorMiss, they have shotloads of workers there paying in.

Too bad many CF members can't AFFORD to live there just to save the minimal amout they pay out to OHIP...they'd be so much happier then.  :

 

[HItorMiss]

But not their dependants. Your OHIP premiums paid benefit your entire family ... not just you.

And the Tax on your pension covers the cost of the OHIP Premium, Plus the civi spouse (if you have one) has paid over the years again covers that.

 

[PMedMoe]

This is like comparing apples and oranges.  I think the point of the argument has gone off the deep end.  I am not talking about dependents, out of work relatives, etc.  I am talking about the fact that the CF should not be paying for Provincial health care as stated in the Canada Health Act. 
I don't mind paying property and education taxes, there's no act that says I should be exempt.  I don't disagree with paying health care for dependents, either.