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Op Attention Danger Pay Reductions?

DirtyDog

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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2013/04/09/afghanistan-soldiers-danger-pay.html

I'm seeing a lot of grief about this out there but I can't say I necessarily disagree.  Doing it in the middle of a rotation though is, odd, at best.

Who decides this anyway?  Treasury Board?  Forgive my ignorance.  Is there a formula for calculating which level it is?
 

McG

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DirtyDog said:
Doing it in the middle of a rotation though is, odd, at best.
Why?  If it has been decided that a lower rate is now warranted, would you think the current tour should continue to be paid higher out of some sense of charity?  If it is not being earned it should not be paid.  And, what would be the message to the next rotation when this charity is slammed shut in their faces?

DirtyDog said:
Who decides this anyway?  Treasury Board?  Forgive my ignorance.  Is there a formula for calculating which level it is?
Yes and yes.
 

DirtyDog

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MCG said:
Why?  If it has been decided that a lower rate is now warranted, would you think the current tour should continue to be paid higher out of some sense of charity?  If it is not being earned it should not be paid.  And, what would be the message to the next rotation when this charity is slammed shut in their faces?
Yes and yes.
It just seems in poor taste to all of a sudden tell guys 'Oh by the way, we decided we were paying you too much" right in the middle of it.  I agree with the decision to reduce, just not the timing of it.  How long has the danger level been reduced?  Should we start clawing back compensation from previous rotos?

What is the formula.  I'm not trying to pick apart this decision, I'm just curious.
 

brihard

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DirtyDog said:
It just seems in poor taste to all of a sudden tell guys 'Oh by the way, we decided we were paying you too much" right in the middle of it.  I agree with the decision to reduce, just not the timing of it.  How long has the danger level been reduced?  Should we start clawing back compensation from previous rotos?

What is the formula.  I'm not trying to pick apart this decision, I'm just curious.

Since there will always be people whose times in theatre overlap, the only fair way is to simply do it effective a given date. Otherwise people who get paid out for the rest of the tour would be making more than new arrivals who face the exact same conditions yet have a lower rate.
 

McG

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The pers in country should have know since late Jan or Feb.  This is not all of a sudden to them.
 

DirtyDog

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MCG said:
The pers in country should have know since late Jan or Feb.  This is not all of a sudden to them.
I'm sort of guessing that too.  The news story is pretty sparse on facts.
 

The_Falcon

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DirtyDog said:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2013/04/09/afghanistan-soldiers-danger-pay.html

I'm seeing a lot of grief about this out there but I can't say I necessarily disagree.  Doing it in the middle of a rotation though is, odd, at best.

It's not odd, when one considers April is the start of the new Fiscal Year for the Government.
 

dimsum

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RHC_2_MP said:
Should have known since February, sure we were told on February 7th that they were going to, not only, cut the allowances, but they were going to be retroactive to the 1st.  The only thing that prevented that 900+ person slap to the face at that time, was a formal protest by CJOC.  The CoC in theatre, is very clear for every briefing, the situation in Kabul is getting worse, not better.  Our "hardship" hasn't improved since the previous rotation, whom received a level 4 for both, risk and hardship but which now sit at 3 and 2, respectively.  So we are all left wondering, with our lives at risk every day. Why is our time and our hides worth less than those that have come and gone before us?  It doesn't take a finance god to see that the timing for such a decision seems suspect, given the direction provided by the government to slash the budget.  I just wish the slice wasn't felt directly on the backs of us, who are lucky enough to be deployed right now...

Part of this may have been to align with the OUTCAN folks who were/are in Kandahar and Helmand, who weren't receiving any tax relief, HA or RA due to....I'm not sure what.  That was a bit of a slap in the face, although granted it was a little easier to skip a handful of people than 1000.

I had to fill out a bunch of paperwork to justify why things weren't any easier in KAF a few months ago than in OP ATHENA.  The committee that sorts this stuff out meets every quarter and would have just published their recommendations. 
 

PuckChaser

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Roto 1 was warned that this may be coming. Guess it took until half-way through Roto 2 to kick in. Way to kill the morale of deployed troops.
 

Jungle

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RHC_2_MP said:
So we are all left wondering, with our lives at risk every day. Why is our time and our hides worth less than those that have come and gone before us?

Slow down there  ::) You guys are running a training center, you don't have to "close with and destroy the enemy" out there.
It's not about the worth of your hides, it's about the level of risk it is in.
 

Cansky

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And Roto 3 was warned in March that they were dropping and that it would drop again during the upcoming tour too.  Should be no big surprise to any soldier that attends the briefs.  Hence the reason they are told time and time again don't spend the money until you have it in your bank account.
 

Teager

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For the threat only the pers on the ground can actualy say if things are "safer" It seems we are torn between two things either it is actualy safer thus a reduction or simply cut backs. Hey the government has to come up with another $30 million for the Brookfield blunder.
 

technophile

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Was bound to happen. I have been saying this for a couple years as KAF and to a much greater degree Kabul has morphed into a " vacation destination" for politicians and civil servants.

I know of a civie accountant from CJOC who went for a few weeks to help with some budget stuff. Really ? Couldn't that be emailed to be looked over in Ottawa ?  Last time i was there we spent more time entertaining"visitors" with blinky lights and shiny stuff than operations.

 

acen

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I think I know the civvie accountant from CJOC that you are referring to Technophile, he is a personal friend and needless to say I joked with him that the CF was sending civvie number crunchers into a war zone whereas I, a reservist, could not get a spot on tour. He's even fired a 777, been inside a Leo, and taken a stroll in a LAVIII, none of which I have been exposed to in my almost 7 years as a reservist in an infantry regiment and many brigade/area exercises.
 

brihard

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acen said:
I think I know the civvie accountant from CJOC that you are referring to Technophile, he is a personal friend and needless to say I joked with him that the CF was sending civvie number crunchers into a war zone whereas I, a reservist, could not get a spot on tour. He's even fired a 777, been inside a Leo, and taken a stroll in a LAVIII, none of which I have been exposed to in my almost 7 years as a reservist in an infantry regiment and many brigade/area exercises.

Even in Kandahar it was a constant fight to fend off 'combat tourists' - both uniformed and civilian - when we were doing convoy ops...
 

Jarnhamar

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Brihard said:
Even in Kandahar it was a constant fight to fend off 'combat tourists' - both uniformed and civilian - when we were doing convoy ops...

Except for the time you got to drive around gorgeous twin 18 year old country singers.
Wait that was me  ;D
 

brihard

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ObedientiaZelum said:
Except for the time you got to drive around gorgeous twin 18 year old country singers.
Wait that was me  ;D

I've been picking my brain for months now trying to remember why I actually quietly hate you. Pretty sure that was it. Thanks!
 

Sig_Des

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ObedientiaZelum said:
Except for the time you got to drive around gorgeous twin 18 year old country singers.
Wait that was me  ;D

That's BS. You know who we got? Half of Glass Tiger.
 

agc

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CBC just tweeted "@CBCAlerts: DND ordered to reverse plan to cut danger pay for soldiers  . $500 cut proposed because Afghanistan seen as safer #cdnpoli"
 
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