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Op IMPACT: CAF in the Iraq & Syria crisis

Marchog

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“Why aren’t we talking more about the kind of humanitarian aid that Canada can and must be engaged in, rather than, you know, trying to whip out our CF-18s and show them how big they are,”
Does this guy even have a clue?
 

ModlrMike

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The "stop, or I'll say stop again" approach to foreign policy.
 

dimsum

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Ducimus BTC said:
Definitely using this as a platform to gain votes ahead of next years election, surprise surprise.

Every party uses every situation as a platform to gain votes, especially so close to an election.  I would have been surprised if the Libs and the NDP didn't oppose this.
 

pointfiveoh

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Ducimus BTC said:
Definitely using this as a platform to gain votes ahead of next years election, surprise surprise.

I second that, he just needs something to badger the PCs with closer to election day, so he sets the stage now. What's sad is if doo-doo hits the fan on Harpers plan some voters will turn liberal just over fears of starting a new war that seems to have already started. Sound political strategy for Trudeau, but I'd rather not have my safety in the hands of a man whose willing to use national security issues as nothing more than a political push to grab votes.
 

Journeyman

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E.R. Campbell said:
“Why aren’t we talking more about the kind of humanitarian aid that Canada can and must be engaged in, rather than, you know, trying to whip out our CF-18s and show them how big they are,” Mr. Trudeau said
Between the catch-all "humanitarian aid" (which can be used without any thought of who, what, how, where, to what end) and the 'whipping out a penis' innuendo, he's obviously hoping to erode some of the NDP/feminist vote. 

Once again, no thought - no surprise.  Especially when the figurehead says "he hasn't decided" and his staff says "support isn't going to happen."

Forgive me....... :boring:
 

The Bread Guy

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Text of the resolution being discussed in the House of Commons at this point via CBC.ca:
That this House

(i) recognise that the leadership of the terrorist group known as the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) has called on its members to target Canada and Canadians at home and abroad;

(ii) further recognise the clear and direct threat that ISIL poses to the people of the region, including members of vulnerable religious and ethnic minority groups who have been subjected to a sustained campaign of brutal sexual violence, murder, and barbaric intimidation by ISIL;

(iii) accept that, unless confronted with strong and direct force, the threat ISIL poses to international peace and security, including to Canadian communities, will continue to grow;

(iv) affirm Canada’s desire, consistent with Canadian values and interests, to protect the vulnerable and innocent civilians of the region, including through urgent humanitarian assistance;

(v) acknowledge the request from the Government of Iraq for military support against ISIL from members of the international community, including from the Government of Canada;

(vi) further acknowledge the participation of Canada’s friends and allies, including numerous countries of the Middle East, in the broad international coalition committed to the fight against ISIL; and

(vii) note that the United Nations Security Council has become seized of the threat posed by international terrorism with the unanimous passage of United Nations Security Council Resolution 2178,

and, accordingly,

(a) support the Government’s decision to contribute Canadian military assets to the fight against ISIL, and terrorists allied with ISIL, including air strike capability for a period of up to six months;

(b) note that the Government of Canada will not deploy troops in ground combat operations; and

(c) continue to offer its resolute and wholehearted support to the brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces who stand on guard for all of us.
 

The Bread Guy

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P.M.'s statement in the House today:
“Mr. Speaker, in recent months, the international community has reacted, with virtually unanimous outrage and alarm at the rise of ISIL, the so-called ‘Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.’

“ISIL has established a self-proclaimed Caliphate, at present stretching over a vast territory roughly from Aleppo to near Baghdad, from which it intends to launch a terrorist jihad not merely against the region but on a global basis.

“Indeed it has specifically targeted Canada and Canadians, urging supporters to attack, quote, ‘disbelieving Canadians in any manner’, vowing that we should not feel secure even in our homes.

“It would be convenient to dismiss such statements as the mere rambling of lunatics were it not for the fact that ISIL’s deeds have been fully in line with its words.

“More shockingly, ISIL’s words are matched by its actions.

“In the territory ISIL has occupied it has conducted a campaign of unspeakable atrocities against the most innocent of people.

“It has tortured and beheaded children, it has raped and sold women into slavery, it has slaughtered minorities, captured prisoners and innocent civilians whose only crime is being or thinking differently from ISIL.

“Indeed by late last summer, ISIL stood on the brink of committing large-scale genocide in Northern Iraq.

“It was at that moment that Canada’s allies in the international community, led by President Obama, decided to intervene.

“Canadians have joined in this response.

“On September 5th, I announced that members of the Canadian Army, in a non-combat role, would advise and assist security forces in Iraq battling the terrorists.

“We had already begun, through the Royal Canadian Air Force, moving weapons and supplies donated by our allies to security forces in Northern Iraq.

“And we indicated that Canada was prepared to do more.

“Today we are bringing forward a motion asking this House to confirm its confidence for a government decision to join our allies and partners – the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Australia, Denmark, the Netherlands, Belgium, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, the United Arab Emirates and likely others – in launching air strikes against ISIL.

“In addition to these air strikes, the Government of Canada will, in response to requests from Iraqi authorities as well as other allies and partners, continue to assist in other, non-combat, counter-terrorism roles.

“We will also contribute one air-to-air refuelling aircraft, two Aurora surveillance aircraft, and the necessary air crews and support personnel.

“In addition we are extending the deployment in a non-combat role of the up to 69 members of the Canadian Army advising and assisting security forces in Iraq.

“There will however be no ground combat mission, which is explicitly ruled out in the resolution.

“These contributions are for a period of up to six months.

“Let me be clear on the objectives of this intervention.

“We intend to significantly degrade the capabilities of ISIL.

“Specifically, its ability to either engage in military movements of scale, or to operate bases in the open.

“This will halt ISIL’s spread in the region and greatly reduce its capacity to launch terrorist attacks outside the region.

“To be clear, this will not eliminate ISIL nor automatically ensure that alternative governance is able to occupy its space in Iraq or Syria.

“It will, however, open the opportunity for others to do so.

“But again to be clear, while ISIL will not be eliminated, the risks presented from the territory in which it operates will be significantly reduced to those of other similar ungoverned spaces in the broader region.

“There are, Mr. Speaker, two other matters on which I wish to elaborate.

“First, the resolution confirms the Government of Canada’s intention to strike ISIL and its allies.

“We will strike ISIL where and only where Canada has the clear support of the government of that country.

“At present this is only true in Iraq.

“If it were to become the case in Syria, then we will participate in air strikes against ISIL in that country also.

“The revulsion of the Government of Canada to the actions of the Assad regime is well known.

“But we are participating only in a counter-terrorism operation against the terrorists around ISIL.

“We have no intention of participating in a war against the government of any country in the region.

“Second, let me assure Canadians that the government is seized with the necessity of avoiding a prolonged quagmire in this part of the world.

“The actions we have announced are ones that could be ended with relative ease.

“Indeed, we and our allies are acting now precisely to avoid a situation that was clearly headed to a wider, protracted and much more dangerous conflict.

“Let me also say that the military measures we are taking do not in any way preclude humanitarian actions.

“There is no either/or here.

“In response to horrifying human suffering, we have already been providing emergency shelter and urgent health care for thousands of civilians in Iraq through support to humanitarian organizations on the ground, and substantial assistance to the Government of Iraq.

“This is in addition to large scale financial assistance already being furnished to the significant number of countries in the region that have been impacted by the humanitarian catastrophe in Syria.

“Let me also assure Canadians that the Government will continue to be seized with the broader terrorist threats against Canada.

“We have strengthened laws in this country to deal with the issue of so-called Canadian foreign fighters.

“We have broadened the grounds for passport revocation against such people as well as allowing for the stripping of citizenship from dual nationals who engage in terrorist activities.

“We will soon bring forward additional measures to strengthen the ability of our security services to monitor aspiring terrorists to where possible prevent their return to Canada or to where that is not possible give greater tools to be able to charge and prosecute.

“Mr. Speaker, to return to the matter before us today, I urge all members to consider and to support the motion we have presented.

“I do this, Mr. Speaker, in recognizing that in a democracy, especially one approaching an election, there is rarely political upside in supporting any kind of military action and little risk in opposing it.

“Nevertheless, for regional and global security and, of course, the security of Canadians, this action is necessary.

“The evidence of the necessity of this, Mr. Speaker, there is none better than the fact that the mission has been launched by President Obama, the leader who had withdrawn American troops and proudly ended the war in Iraq.

“Of course, Mr. Speaker, one could say that while the mission is evidently necessary, we don’t have to be the ones doing it because others will.

“But, Mr. Speaker, throughout our history that has never been the Canadian way.

“It has never been the Canadian way to do only the most easy and praiseworthy of actions and to leave the tough things for others.

“Indeed, Mr. Speaker, colleagues, we should be under no illusion.

“If Canada wants to keep its voice in the world, and we should since so many of our challenges are global, being a free rider means you are not taken seriously.

“The threat posed by ISIL is real.

“And it is grave.

“And it is explicitly directed, in part, against this country.

“Left unchecked, this terrorist threat can only grow and grow quickly.

“As a government we know our ultimate responsibility is to protect Canadians and to defend our citizens from those who would do harm to us or our families.

“We also know that our country, like our allies, shares the duty and burden of all free peoples, to act against wider global threats when it is in our capacity to do so.

“And when our allies recognize and respond to a threat that would also harm us, we Canadians do not stand on the sidelines.

“We do our part.

“On Monday, this House will debate the motion put forward for an air combat campaign against ISIL.

“I call on all members of this House to show their support for this mission and of course our support for the brave men and women of the Canadian Armed Forces who are now and always ready and willing to answer the call of their country.”
 

The Bread Guy

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If you want to check out the House of Commons debate from yesterday, try here (links to Hansard) or here (6 page PDF of just the IRQ motion debate).
 

Edward Campbell

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And we have M. Trudeau's proposed response, brilliantly depicted courtesy of Graeme MacKay in the Hamilton Spectator:

BzWKv5QCcAIk5Pd.jpg:large

Source: http://www.artizans.com/image/GMAC2739/justin-trudeau-whips-out-peace-doves-by-voting-against-iraq-mission-color/
 

The Bread Guy

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And they wouldn't be Liberals if they couldn't be ..... "politicially and ideologically flexible" ....
The Liberal Party plans to support the Canadian Forces combat mission in Iraq once it is approved by the House of Commons, even though it will vote against the deployment of six CF-18 fighter jets to conduct air strikes in Iraq ....
 

Edward Campbell

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milnews.ca said:
And they wouldn't be Liberals if they couldn't be ..... "politicially and ideologically flexible" ....

M. Garneau (Capt(N) (ret'd) Garneau) said, in the link, above, that "...the key issue is “being loyal” to the members of the Canadian Forces, once their mission is approved by Parliament, even in the face of Liberal opposition."

All I can say is Wow! I have described this as being cynical and insulting; it's worse: it is two faced, in the extreme. I'm not sure I can find words to express the contempt I have for the Liberal Party of Canada and its leadership.


Edited to add:

Don't get me wrong. I do not support what the US led West (plus some "bought and paid for" locals) is doing. As I mentioned above I think "half measures" are going to fail, maybe even backfire. I'm of the go big or stay home school of thought ... I don't think we can do much with a 'six pack' of CF-18s; maybe if we sent 60, and the US sent 600 bombers, and maybe if we sent a few brigades, and the US sent dozens f brigades, and maybe if the Australia and Germany and the UK also sent proportionate forces then, maybe again, we might sort out the region, and the "sorting out" must include the Saudis and all the other emirs and princes and so ons, IF we stayed for a few generations to civilize the place ... convince them with the bomb and the noose and the schoolroom that this is not the Middle Ages and the "sky fairies" don't rule here on earth.
 

YZT580

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The folks here would never allow any of it.  Re-education would be forcing folks to act contrary to their beliefs: you can only force that on Christians in this country.  The noose would have every people's advocate in the country marching on OW.  The best you could hope for is 60 days and either a restraining order or a court order to refrain from decapitating.  If that didn't work they would also add in a 500 dollar fine an additional 30 days and a second restraining order
 

cupper

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YZT580 said:
The folks here would never allow any of it.  Re-education would be forcing folks to act contrary to their beliefs: you can only force that on Christians in this country.  The noose would have every people's advocate in the country marching on OW.  The best you could hope for is 60 days and either a restraining order or a court order to refrain from decapitating.  If that didn't work they would also add in a 500 dollar fine an additional 30 days and a second restraining order

My head hurts trying to figure out what you are saying. Care to clarify?
 

cryco

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I think he meant that if you go big as ER Campbell said and follow up that scenario with a  couple of generations of re-education, the people of this? (not sure if he meant this ,as in the west, or this, as in middle east) country would object to having the west spoon-feed what the people in the Syria/Iraq area to learn and tutor them through life.
After that, I'm lost. And now my head hurts too.
I also agree with E.R.Cambpell though. Go overkill, not just big. Send in as much military as you can and obliterate the fools.
 

CougarKing

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Doves emerging from a clueless dauphin's fly aside...

It's now official: (EDITED to add more info from full article at link above)

Vancity Buzz

PARLIAMENT APPROVES MOTION TO SEND 600 CANADIAN SOLDIERS, CF-18 JETS
TO IRAQ WAR AGAINST ISIS


The House of Commons has voted to approve a motion that permits the federal government to join a international coalition to fight the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) threat in Iraq.

The six-month combat mission motion passed 157-134 in Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s majority Conservative government.

Canada joins more than a dozen other countries who have already confirmed their armed intervention in the conflict, a list that includes the United States, United Kingdom, Australia, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Netherlands, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.

By the end of the month, the following Canadian Armed Forces will be deployed overseas for the U.S.-led mission in Iraq:

6 CF-18 Hornet fighter jets for airstrikes and air patrols
1 CC-150 Polaris air-to-air refuelling aircraft
2 CP-140 Aurora surveillance aircraft
1 dedicated airlift aircraft
approximately 600 Canadian Armed Forces personnel

Harper has maintained that ground soldiers will not be deployed to the battle in an effort to limit Canadian casualties.
However, the mission could be expanded to fight ISIL militants in Syria, although federal opposition parties have demanded for a new vote over any expansion of the combat mission into the neighbouring country.

(...SNIPPED)
 
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