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Op UNIFIER - CAF and the Ukraine Crisis

Old Sweat

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I suggest we see what is in the next budget for DND, including changes in terms of numbers and when the money flows, or not. Remember, after all the noise and punditry, how things did not really change after General Baril, the CDS at the time, took the fall for PM Chretien missing the King of Jordan's funeral.
 

Czech_pivo

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That’ll come soon enough. Rumour it was one of Biden’s points in the “here’s how things are going to go down in the coming months” call during the Ambassador Bridge blockade.
I bloody well hope so.
 

KevinB

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There will be no significant changes to budgets, especially with the COVID-19 free money for all bill coming due soon.
I suspect the CAF budget will get a very significant bump in the next few months.

I mean it’s going to cost money to reform 4 CMBG in Latvia (cough Belarus/Ukraine)
 

Old Sweat

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I suspect the CAF budget will get a very significant bump in the next few months.

I mean it’s going to cost money to reform 4 CMBG in Latvia (cough Belarus/Ukraine)
I suspect there may be an announcement of one, but then, as things cool off, it will be chipped away. I've seen this sort of thing before, and also well-meaning announcements like Allard'scirca 1969 claim that 4 CMBG was going to be converted to the finest air mobile force on earth, followed by a three-year freeze on the defence budget, and nothing but cuts.
 

kev994

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I suspect the CAF budget will get a very significant bump in the next few months.

I mean it’s going to cost money to reform 4 CMBG in Latvia (cough Belarus/Ukraine)
Being able to spend it will be the key.
 

suffolkowner

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Just replacing our existing capabilities like the CF-18/CP-140/CC-150 that are pretty simple only one real choice sole source would be a huge win with this government
 

daftandbarmy

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I suspect there may be an announcement of one, but then, as things cool off, it will be chipped away. I've seen this sort of thing before, and also well-meaning announcements like Allard'scirca 1969 claim that 4 CMBG was going to be converted to the finest air mobile force on earth, followed by a three-year freeze on the defence budget, and nothing but cuts.

But there's never been a direct attack on the West like this since WW2. Even Germany is stepping up for the first time ever



The 'me too' factor, to keep up with our NATO allies, might be too strong for our National Man Baby to resist ;)
 

FJAG

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I suspect there may be an announcement of one, but then, as things cool off, it will be chipped away. I've seen this sort of thing before, and also well-meaning announcements like Allard'scirca 1969 claim that 4 CMBG was going to be converted to the finest air mobile force on earth, followed by a three-year freeze on the defence budget, and nothing but cuts.
Those were interesting and confusing times. The way it worked out had a lot to do with this:

However, Trudeau made it clear that he did not want an intensified Cold War as a result of the invasion, and worked to avoid a rupture with Moscow.[89] In a speech in December 1968, Trudeau asked: "Can we assume Russia wants war because it invaded Czechoslovakia?".[90]

In 1968-1969, Trudeau wanted to pull Canada out of NATO, arguing that the MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) caused by a Soviet-American nuclear exchange made it highly unlikely that the Soviet Union would ever invade West Germany, thereby making NATO into an expensive irrelevance in his view.[91]
The political leadership was certainly aiming at taking the "mech" out of 4 CMBG (which until early 1968 had been known as 4 CIBG). The Army dragged its feet until the government's feeling went away.

In a lot of ways it was a strong example of how much a political leader's control of the funding taps and domestic social agenda can get in the way of defence and security issues. On the other hand we've been able to muddle through on the cheap for a half of a century since then. I guess timing is everything.

🍻
 

GK .Dundas

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But there's never been a direct attack on the West like this since WW2. Even Germany is stepping up for the first time ever



The 'me too' factor, to keep up with our NATO allies, might be too strong for our National Man Baby to resist ;)
Don't count on it, you also have a hundred and fifty years of history,that pretty much crosses all party lines.
Mind you if you could convince him he'd be going against the current taking an incredibly brave stand spitting in the eye of history etc. You might actually get him on side.
The funny part of this or maybe the sad part is that it would be true.
I regret to say it but most Canadians are a spectacularly insular people.
I get the distinct impression that for most people the action in Ukraine might as well be taking on another planet..
 

MilEME09

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The sad thing is, in our current state, if war dragged in NATO, we would need full mobilization of the Reserves just to plug the holes in our ORBAT.
 

GR66

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The sad thing is, in our current state, if war dragged in NATO, we would need full mobilization of the Reserves just to plug the holes in our ORBAT.
Plus we've already given away all of our limited AT inventory...
 

MilEME09

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Plus we've already given away all of our limited AT inventory...
I doubt the cupboard I'd bare, not completely any way, but we like the Russians also have limited domestic production capacity. If we got in a shooting war IVI would have to dramatically expand production. Even then we would need to rely on the Americans for production of things like tank rounds, etc..
 

rmc_wannabe

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I would hazard a guess that if came down to it, we would probably start out by being absorbed into a U.S. or U.K. formation, providing people for their equipment. I do not see us fielding autonomous formations in a peer to peer battle.
 

GK .Dundas

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I would hazard a guess that if came down to it, we would probably start out by being absorbed into a U.S. or U.K. formation, providing people for their equipment. I do not see us fielding autonomous formations in a peer to peer battle.
Ah..Cannon Fodder, lovely.
 

suffolkowner

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Ah..Cannon Fodder, lovely.
I don't know about that exactly. We can't or wont provide a fully equipped figthing unit so whats wrong with filling out are Allies. Its bound to happen in a real shooting war anyways. Are the Americans cannon fodder as well?
 
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