OPFOR vehicles in Wainwright

[McG]

Just as the US has done, it seems we will have specially painted and modified vehicles for the enemy force at our manoeuvre training centre.  So far, guys have reported Leopards with racks welded to hold oil drums across the back and LAV III with special skirts to hide the wheel tops and obscure the hull shape, and a tube above the turret to simulate a Sagger.  All of the vehicles are painted in a tan, brown, and green disruptive pattern.

Unfortunately, I do not have any pictures to post.

 

[foerestedwarrior]

sounds fun ;D

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Just as the US has done, it seems we will have specially painted and modified vehicles for the enemy force at our manoeuvre training centre.   So far, guys have reported Leopards with racks welded to hold oil drums across the back and LAV III with special skirts to hide the wheel tops and obscure the hull shape, and a tube above the turret to simulate a Sagger.   All of the vehicles are painted in a tan, brown, and green disruptive pattern.

Unfortunately, I do not have any pictures to post.

Think there is money to be had selling Fantasian Army Paybooks on ebay?

 

[Matt_Fisher]

I can see using the Leopards as Opfor, since with the conversion to MGS there will be an 'excess' of them.  However, wouldn't it make more sense to leave as many LAV-IIIs with the operating forces as possible and use something else such as a modified M113, Bison or Grizzly for the infantry assets?

OR

Pick up some real Soviet equipment at bargain basement prices from surplus stocks in Eastern Europe or Russia.  When it's all said and done, it's probably cheaper to acquire, cannibalize and dispose when broken beyond repair enough of the surplus Soviet stuff than to operate and maintain Leopards and LAV-IIIs at CMTC. 

 

[Pikache]

What about the cost of training guys to use and take care of the soviet equipment?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

"wouldn't it make more sense"

You make me laugh.  Your idea on using other wheeled vehicle makes sense considering my mech BN is down to 2 LAV coy instead of 3.

 

[pbi]

Part of the Army redistribution of major equipment is to fit out the CMTC. I would be surprised to see LAVs permanently modified: "add-on" kits are more likely, much as the US Army training aids centre at Fort Lewis used to make to put over existing US vehicles. (Wonder if any of those are still around......?)
Getting old Warsaw Pact eqpt is an interesting idea: since you would only be training the OPFOR folks, the training bill wouldn't be too bad. Spare parts and maint might be. Cheers.

 

[McG]

My personal opinion would have been to use M113 for the OpFor, especially since the Armd and Arty will likely no longer keep the upgraded M113 that they were slated to get (these vehicles were planned to support the M109 and Leopard).

 

[Matt_Fisher]

I can't imagine that spare parts and maintenance costs for ex-Soviet/WP equipment would be any more expensive than maintaining a similar force of Leopards or LAV IIIs.

Worst case scenario the OPFOR would run its maintenance schedule as per 3rd World standards.  Seems like there are quite a few T-55s, BMPs and BTRs still operational in places like Eritrea, Angola, Mozambique, Afghanistan etc. that haven't had much or any maintenance done to them since their cold war eastern bloc sponsors packed up shop and went home/cut off the cashflow.

Then when the stuff eventually breaks beyond any kind of repair that can be inexpensively done the vehicle would be stripped for cannibalization and then hauled off to the range as a target.  ;D

I'd say about the only serious problem running such a system of OPFOR vehicles may come from Environment Canada as the exhaust emissions from the Soviet/WP stuff is pretty horrendous.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Worse then the M113?

 

[gun plumber]

I've seen both(I work in Wpns\Mat section in WATC-The guys who actually did the mods) and can say that they defininatly look different.Having never seen a "naked" Leopard before it was neat to see.They removed the thermal jacket from the barrel,removed all armor from the turret,removed the wheel skirts,welded on a steel drum on the back and various plastic and wooden add ons plus a new paint job.
The LAV 3 in question was a little bit more spartan.They added rubber skirts to the last 2 wheeles and a plastic "T-bar"to the turret that runs axially on the right side.
All these mods are temporary.They can be removed at any time to bring the veh back to class "S" condition.As far as the motivation behind it ,it's clearly a money and training issue.It's cheaper to do the mods(I don't think it cost them anything,stuff was all redially availible)and anyone can still get in them and drive(no extra training required).
The big thing they are going for is to change the silloette(sp) of the veh,not the up close and personal "look and feel" of them.
Also,I would like to clear one thing up.The whole "Leopards into razor blades "myth.We have 90% of the Leopard fleet in Wainwright,and continue to repair and maintain them on a regular basis.These veh are to used for "Red and Blue"force training in the CMTC.Although the turrets are preserved(there is no req for live fire trg here)the veh themselves are still being used for trg.
One thing that I find very interesting about being here is the amount oy LAV variants I have seen.To date I've seen the FOO variant,the Situational awarness variant and theres talk of a EW version coming here.
With SAT 1 ongoing,and SAT 2 approaching quickly,Wainwright is booming.
On my end that means a month of overtime upcoming(8-8) and something new each day(I love my job).
cheers
P.S-Kudos to Mat section in WATC-using only imagination,EME know how and scrap material,they buit trg aids that will last forever.

Arte et Martre
By skill and by Fighting

 

[McG]

Do you have any digital photos?

 

[gun plumber]

I'll see if I can post some pics in the next couple days.

 

[pbi]

Gun plummer: Good on you guys. The legendar Canadian Army ingenuity for improvisation is alive and well. Cheers.

 

[gun plumber]

I'm waiting on a new digital camara to show up soon so I can post pics here for all to see.I don't think it violates any security issues-just spoils the fun of hearing all the "what the heck is that" and all the rumors that can start as to thier origin,honestly the LAV looks kinda hokey,but the leopard is really differnt looking.I've also seen a new OPFOR vehical roaming around base.It's a civy pattern 4x4 with a fake AAA machine gun mounted in the back.
pbi-Thank you, as a menber of the EME branch,but the credit goes to the 2 Mat techs and the 2 civy tradesman we have here.They basically had an idea and made it a reality using only what they could scrounge and a coat of paint.Well done.