Our North - SSE Policy Update Megathread

[Czech_pivo]

Only if you build a complex refinery in the middle of nowhere. The Ring of Fire contains a host of minerals; nickle, copper, 'platinum group' and the big prize - chromium. Not an engineer but some can be refined in the same stream, and refineries for many already exist in Ontario - but not chromium. The plan of the proponents is to mine and process the other, more accessible minerals first as a way to fund development of the chromium deposits. As far as I am aware, there is no chromium refinery in North America and they require a lot of energy.

The pipelines (3 I think) carry gas to eastern Canada, so bleeding off any for overseas export would require additional capacity. Also, there has been talk about converting one of them to oil to get around environmental and sovereignty issues surrounding Line 5 which goes through the US. that would reduce NG capacity even further.

The main channel out of the Moose River into James Bay is measured in single digit feet and is constantly shifting. The waters of James an Hudson's bays and the islands are politically part of Nunavut.

Maybe we can get China to develop it. they like building fake islands.

100% understand that its complex - very complex - but at the same time an end to end feasibility study should be undertaken to explore all avenues. I read somewhere last night that a similar feasibility study was proposed back in 2008 by the local NDP MPP's to the then Liberal Provincial Government and it went no where. So, here we are 17yrs later asking for something similar to happen.

 

[Kirkhill]

We’ll, for half a year or so. Ice is a factor.

As it is for every port from the Lakehead to Sept Iles.

 

[FJAG]

As it is for every port from the Lakehead to Sept Iles.

Yes. Which is why year-round open ports really matter to a nation that wants to dramatically increase its trade with countries that aren’t the US and which need to be accessed by ship.

In Manitoba I used to marvel at the hoops the grain trade used to have to go through to squeeze in some shipments through Churchill.

We have several perfectly useful ports at either end of the country but not the infrastructure to maximize their use. Canada should concentrate on those first.

 

[Kirkhill]

Yes. Which is why year-round open ports really matter to a nation that wants to dramatically increase its trade with countries that aren’t the US and which need to be accessed by ship.

In Manitoba I used to marvel at the hoops the grain trade used to have to go through to squeeze in some shipments through Churchill.

We have several perfectly useful ports at either end of the country but not the infrastructure to maximize their use. Canada should concentrate on those first.

Canada should.

But a hundred and fifty years of trying in the face of blockades, political embargoes and labour action have me and a lot of others looking for alternatives.

 

[FJAG]

Canada should.

But a hundred and fifty years of trying in the face of blockades, political embargoes and labour action have me and a lot of others looking for alternatives.

What? Those won’t happen elsewhere?

I’m all for diversification, but we need to be able to operate at scale, and IMHO, northern supply routes do not give results that provide the requisite ROI.

 

[Kirkhill]

What? Those won’t happen elsewhere?

I’m all for diversification, but we need to be able to operate at scale, and IMHO, northern supply routes do not give results that provide the requisite ROI.

One of the newer features on the prairie landscape is the rise of the Inland Terminal. Those started when the short tracks were pulled up and the 8 mile elevators died.

Concurrently we have seen the rise of super hubs like Hardisty for oil as well as the designation of places like Regina and Edmonton as Inland Ports and Global Transportation Hubs.

All of these are merely storage sites, warehouses if you will, where goods are stored to be shipped to the most profitable destination at the most opportune time.

In fact many farmers are now operating enough bins with enough holding capacity, some bigger than the villahe elevators of yore, that they could be seen as ports themselves.

Grain, like furs, have always been managed seasonally.

Coincidentally there is a seasonal component to energy demand.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Yes. Which is why year-round open ports really matter to a nation that wants to dramatically increase its trade with countries that aren’t the US and which need to be accessed by ship.

In Manitoba I used to marvel at the hoops the grain trade used to have to go through to squeeze in some shipments through Churchill.

We have several perfectly useful ports at either end of the country but not the infrastructure to maximize their use. Canada should concentrate on those first.

Halifax is a year round deep water port, with minimal tidal restrictions.

Too bad we have Quebec in the way.

 

[Kirkhill]

Halifax is a year round deep water port, with minimal tidal restrictions.

Too bad we have Quebec in the way.

Likewise with Rupert and Vancouver being blockaded by the government of BC.

Rupert's Land is more of a colony now than it ever was in the days of the HBC.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Likewise with Rupert and Vancouver being blockaded by the government of BC.

$$ talks, whining walks.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-and-alberta-take-pipeline-fight-to-premiers-conference-1.1141121#:~:text=But%20Alberta%20Premier%20Alison%20Redford,reporters%20in%20Edmonton%20on%20Tuesday.

 

[Underway]

What? Those won’t happen elsewhere?

I’m all for diversification, but we need to be able to operate at scale, and IMHO, northern supply routes do not give results that provide the requisite ROI.

That's why Gray's Bay is the topic of discussion. The northern half of that would pull the resources out of the area (its like Ring of Fire up there). But that's also why the initial road plan doesn't go all the way south to Yellowknife (though it does connect to ice roads IIRC).

We have several perfectly useful ports at either end of the country but not the infrastructure to maximize their use. Canada should concentrate on those first.

Yes, we have very inefficient ports right now. Halifax is getting better but Vancouver needs a full makeover. As well there are ports in Quebec that are good and need expansion if possible (usable even in winter with some light icebreaking).

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Deltaport was built with transportation ROW's which were progressively gnawed away at by Provincial and Municipal governments and now it is hard to move goods to and from the port. Also geography in and near Vancouver is not that helpfully. Same with up north, some of the terrain that Northern Gateway needed to cross was extremely challenging. There was real concerns how the company would respond to a pipeline break with 20' of snow or the risk of daily avalanches, without much in the way of answers. Not to mention geo instability on parts of the route.

 

[Kirkhill]

Pictures better than words

Manitoba embraces second Arctic port and power link amid US trade tensions, interprovincial barriers

With the spectre of a deepening US trade war on the horizon, Manitoba is fast-tracking efforts to diversify its trade routes and break down longstanding interprovincial infrastructure barriers — including support for a second Hudson Bay port and a major hydroelectric and fibre optic corridor to...

www.westernstandard.news

Who is NeeStaNan? -

NeeStaNan involves First Nations, through their tribal councils, from all across the prairies in creating a utility corridor from the inland provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan through Manitoba to the …

lifestyles55.net

GN, NTI call for federal support on 4 priority projects

Newspaper of record for Nunavut, and the Nunavik territory of Quebec

nunatsiaq.com

Mackenzie Valley Pipeline - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Indigenous groups buy $1B stake in pipeline

TC Energy says it's selling a $1 billion stake in its Western Canadian natural gas transmission network to Indigenous groups.

www.aptnnews.ca

Alberta Indigenous energy ownership driving increased economic activity

An ATB study concluded that total Indigenous economic activity in Alberta grew by a substantial 42 per cent between 2019 and 2023.

www.canadianenergycentre.ca

Environmental Stewardship Through an Indigenous Lens - WIPG

The Western Indigenous Pipeline Group (WIPG) is a wholly owned Indigenous company led by Chiefs and community leaders, which represents the communities impacted by Trans Mountain Pipeline and Expansion (TMX) (collectively, Trans Mountain) in B.C. and Alberta.

wipg.ca

Then add in Ontario's James Bay Port and the Trans Canada Pipeline connection add Cochrane.

There is a lot more than one person interested in getting western products to friendly tidewater in the Arctic.

And all of the options contribute to development and national sovereignty.

 

[RangerRay]

Minerals are a finite resource in any given location. The day a mine opens, its shut-down clock starts. There is a reason Ontario (and perhaps other provinces) doesn't allow new towns to be established near new mines; they were stuck with a town after the mine closes. Remote mines now have a temporary 'camp' with fly-in shifts.

BC is full of towns built specifically for mines, even as late as the 80’s. Sure enough, when the mine closed or production dwindled, those towns struggled to survive, even ones closer to larger centres. Even worse if the town is like Tumbler Ridge, a long ways from anywhere at the end of a dead-end highway.

 

[daftandbarmy]

BC is full of towns built specifically for mines, even as late as the 80’s. Sure enough, when the mine closed or production dwindled, those towns struggled to survive, even ones closer to larger centres. Even worse if the town is like Tumbler Ridge, a long ways from anywhere at the end of a dead-end highway.

Logging too

 

[lenaitch]

As it is for every port from the Lakehead to Sept Iles.

As far as I know, Montreal and east operate year-round.

Pictures better than words

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Manitoba embraces second Arctic port and power link amid US trade tensions, interprovincial barriers

With the spectre of a deepening US trade war on the horizon, Manitoba is fast-tracking efforts to diversify its trade routes and break down longstanding interprovincial infrastructure barriers — including support for a second Hudson Bay port and a major hydroelectric and fibre optic corridor to...

www.westernstandard.news

Who is NeeStaNan? -

NeeStaNan involves First Nations, through their tribal councils, from all across the prairies in creating a utility corridor from the inland provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan through Manitoba to the …

lifestyles55.net

GN, NTI call for federal support on 4 priority projects

Newspaper of record for Nunavut, and the Nunavik territory of Quebec

nunatsiaq.com

Mackenzie Valley Pipeline - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Indigenous groups buy $1B stake in pipeline

TC Energy says it's selling a $1 billion stake in its Western Canadian natural gas transmission network to Indigenous groups.

www.aptnnews.ca

Alberta Indigenous energy ownership driving increased economic activity

An ATB study concluded that total Indigenous economic activity in Alberta grew by a substantial 42 per cent between 2019 and 2023.

www.canadianenergycentre.ca

Environmental Stewardship Through an Indigenous Lens - WIPG

The Western Indigenous Pipeline Group (WIPG) is a wholly owned Indigenous company led by Chiefs and community leaders, which represents the communities impacted by Trans Mountain Pipeline and Expansion (TMX) (collectively, Trans Mountain) in B.C. and Alberta.

wipg.ca

Then add in Ontario's James Bay Port and the Trans Canada Pipeline connection add Cochrane.

There is a lot more than one person interested in getting western products to friendly tidewater in the Arctic.

And all of the options contribute to development and national sovereignty.

I note that the NeeStaNan proposal is subject to . . .well just about everything, so it's a map and a dream that they want somebody else to study.

As far as I know, no gas from the Trans-Canada pipeline is exported, so diverting the flow bound for Ontario, Quebec et al at Cochrane would be a 'let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark' moment.

 

[Kirkhill]

As far as I know, Montreal and east operate year-round.

With the assistance of ice-clearing systems.

I note that the NeeStaNan proposal is subject to . . .well just about everything, so it's a map and a dream that they want somebody else to study.

Let us all continue to dream.

As far as I know, no gas from the Trans-Canada pipeline is exported, so diverting the flow bound for Ontario, Quebec et al at Cochrane would be a 'let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark' moment.

In 1957 the Trans-Canada Mainline opened delivering 300 Million cf per day. Now it delivers 6.2 Billion cf per day. This has been achieved by laying more pipe along the same route.

Adding an LNG refinery to Moosonee would be no different than adding a few more factories to Ontario, a couple million more Quebecers or even an LNG refinery in New Brunswick.

As to the notion that everything is finite..... Yes.

....

On that subject

Candidatus methanoliparia

Heavy oil-eating microbe grown in lab for the first time

Archaeon that breaks down long alkanes into methane and carbon dioxide could be used for energy recovery from depleted oil reservoirs

www.chemistryworld.com

A bug that converts coal and oil into methane/natural gas.

Methane is found in gas wells, oil wells, oil sands and coal mines.

Methane is hard to transport and dangerous.
Oil is easier to transport and differently dangerous.
Bitumen is easier to transport and less dangerous.
Coal is easier to transport and quite safe.

Perhaps we should be shipping coal and bitumen along with a package of bugs so that the end users can generate their own methane on site.

Home brew.

 

[Czech_pivo]

With the assistance of ice-clearing systems.



Let us all continue to dream.



In 1957 the Trans-Canada Mainline opened delivering 300 Million cf per day. Now it delivers 6.2 Billion cf per day. This has been achieved by laying more pipe along the same route.

Adding an LNG refinery to Moosonee would be no different than adding a few more factories to Ontario, a couple million more Quebecers or even an LNG refinery in New Brunswick.

As to the notion that everything is finite..... Yes.

....

On that subject

Candidatus methanoliparia

Heavy oil-eating microbe grown in lab for the first time

Archaeon that breaks down long alkanes into methane and carbon dioxide could be used for energy recovery from depleted oil reservoirs

www.chemistryworld.com

A bug that converts coal and oil into methane/natural gas.

Methane is found in gas wells, oil wells, oil sands and coal mines.

Methane is hard to transport and dangerous.
Oil is easier to transport and differently dangerous.
Bitumen is easier to transport and less dangerous.
Coal is easier to transport and quite safe.

Perhaps we should be shipping coal and bitumen along with a package of bugs so that the end users can generate their own methane on site.

Home brew.

Like Rum Barrels in NFLD?