P-8 Poseidon

[Zoomie]

...and that will likely make whatever they come up with unaffordable. The only possibility (IMHO) is to partner up with other nations seeking to replace their P-3 or ATL 1/2 and develop an alternative to the P-8.

Exactly - as much as I am not a current fan of the jungle jet - Bombardier could learn something from its South American competitors Embraer.  FWSAR and MPA/LRP replacements here and here.

Viking Air really doesn't have anything to offer the CF when it comes to FWSAR - they have pipe dreams, but nothing on the tarmac that can be taken seriously.  A Q400 FWSAR will just be a nightmare - we need a military transport aircraft that has a robust airframe, not something that is meant to fly out of paved strips.

 

[dapaterson]

Option 3 for FWSAR would be to stick wings on one of these:

(Original photo caption is "Worst vehicle in NATO")

 

[Zoomie]

/shudder

Will it come with squeaky brakes too?

 

[MJP]

/shudder

Will it come with squeaky brakes too?

One could only hope...

Plus you get a heater that spontaneously ignites from time to time.

 

[h3tacco]

An aircraft that I am sure has been overlooked for the CMA is the Japanese P-1. This is the first purpose built MPA in a long time.

Japan operates over a 100 P-3s. I am guessing they are the second largest P-3 operator and probably the second largest MPA/LRPA operator in the world. The Kawasaki P-1 is being built and designed solely to replace the P-3 and is not a converted airliner. The major stumbling block I see is the Japaneses export laws, however, I understand they may change in the near term.

The aircraft first flew in 2007 but there is very little open source English information I am curious how the project is progressing and how it compares to its Western rivals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_P-1

 

[dapaterson]

Japan has prohibitions on arms exports, so their P1 is a non-starter.

 

[aesop081]

An aircraft that I am sure has been overlook for the CMA is the Japanese P-1.

I was in Japan late last year and talked to their P-3 guys, the P-1 project is in danger of cancellation due to budget cutbacks.

 

[h3tacco]

Japan has prohibitions on arms exports, so their P1 is a non-starter.

True but their is a significant movement in Japan to change the arms export ban.

http://newpacificinstitute.org/jsw/?p=3592

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-14/bae-eads-to-seek-easing-of-japan-s-three-ps-limits-on-weapons-exports.html

http://www.mofa.go.jp/policy/un/disarmament/policy/index.html

 

[h3tacco]

I was in Japan late last year and talked to their P-3 guys, the P-1 project is in danger of cancellation due to budget cutbacks.

Cool. Was there any other insight into the P-1?

 

[aesop081]

Cool. Was their any other insight into the P-1?

It looked very promissing in their eyes and they were justifiably proud to show off what they could to us. They did express concerns that the cost of the project was high and that the government was seriously considering going another route.

The internal layout of the aircraft was well thought out. The sensor suite, AFAIR, was of similar capability to the Block 3 Aurora but i am admitedly fuzzy on the details presented at the breif......i was recovering from the "freindship" party the night before.

 

[Drag]

That depends entirely on the airframe chosen and what type(s) of weapons you wish to employ. Your choice of terms (ISR) also overlooks the fact that ISR is not the Aurora's only role.

My point was the the Aurora has other roles, namely ASW, and that domestic industry cannot presently meet those roles.  Building a made-in-Canada aircraft with all the capabilities of a P8 would be cost prohibitive and would take decades.

 

[aesop081]

My point was the the Aurora has other roles, namely ASW,

Never knew that  :

 

[Drag]

Never knew that  :

You would be surprised how many don't... Including pers associated with various efforts to upgrade the Auroras, when I pointed to a certain capability that was being briefed to one individual at a conference down south, his reply was "Why?  That's for hunting submatins.  Sub hunting is a Cold War thing. We don't need it now." 
As an aside, I wonder how many fully ASW qualified Aurora crews could we muster in an emergency...

 

[aesop081]

You would be surprised how many don't...

With 3200 hours on the Aurora, i am not one of those people.

 
As an aside, I wonder how many fully ASW qualified Aurora crews could we muster in an emergency...

Answer : Enough.

Example : We deployed 2 combat-ready ASW crews with aircraft, support and maintenance personnel, with only 2 hours notice to move, half-way around the world on 24 March 2011 and began operations within 72 hours.

 

[Zoomie]

With 3200 hours on the Aurora, i am not one of those people.

A few more hours and you might know your job as well as the front end....   It only takes them a quarter of those hours to be MPCC.

 

[aesop081]

A few more hours and you might know your job as well as the front end....   It only takes them a quarter of those hours to be MPCC.

I'm quite comfortable in the knowledge that i have much more experience that a new LRPCC, specially nowadays.

 

[Zoomie]

I'm quite comfortable in the knowledge that i have much more experience that a new LRPCC, specially nowadays.

Absolutely - the CC will always defer to the crew members when it comes to their specific  jobs.  He/she is not going to counter the FE's judgement when it comes to the aircraft's subsystems, just as he won't talk about RADAR propagation and the like to an AESOP - he'll just expect the job to be carried out.

 

[NavyShooter]

CDN,

Your past trip opened a few new horizons, eh? 

The CF might have the Air-Land battle sorted out, but for the first time in a LONG time, we worked out the kinks in the Air-Sea battle-space.

NS

 

[aesop081]

CDN,

Your past trip opened a few new horizons, eh? 

The CF might have the Air-Land battle sorted out, but for the first time in a LONG time, we worked out the kinks in the Air-Sea battle-space.

NS

It was a great trip indeed and we broke ally of ground for CF operations.

 

[h3tacco]

Looks like Japan is planning to lift its ban on arms exports before the end of the year. Maybe the P-1 could be considered for the CMA project.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204552304577119194270959370.html

Merry Xmas