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airmich said:Then maybe the reply to you should have been, no, don't utilize your CoC to solve problems or concerns, run to the internet instead. :
OR you could have just told him to contact his nearest BPSO's office.
This number will be available at even the most poorly run/undermanned orderly room, and barring that (if you live in a city with no major base) the recruiting center which recruited you.
All of the BPSO's offices have toll free numbers, e-mail and civilian phone numbers, and are staffed with civilians who know the ER plan inside and out. They can answer all of your questions and provide you with the forms you need (downloadable/fax/mail) so that you can actually get some money back.
Rely on your CoC for things involving your unit and it's activities, the onus is on you for Education and any subsequent reimbursement, especially as an NCM, where formal education is not required for your job - it is an extra curricular activity.
After I got my Learning Plan approved, I don't submit anything to my unit - they're busy, and my taking it directly to the Education clerk ensures that it is processed in a timely and error free manner.
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(Sorry if this is the wrong forum, couldn't really decide which was appropriate)
Does anyone know if receipts for used text books can be reimbursed under the education reimbursement program?
I've kept a copy of the receipts, a copy of the book list, which demonstrates that the books were required as part of the course, and further demonstrates that the price of used books was well below the price of the new books...
Does anyone know if receipts for used text books can be reimbursed under the education reimbursement program?
I've kept a copy of the receipts, a copy of the book list, which demonstrates that the books were required as part of the course, and further demonstrates that the price of used books was well below the price of the new books...
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As long as you have the receipts and the book list, they are happy. You basically saved the government some money by going with used. Personally I have a hard time reading past all the crap people highlight in used books... This thread could probably move to the ROTP thread, since that covers most things about subsidized education, even if you aren't in ROTP its self.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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engineer1 said:
If I understand you correctly, you are applying as a DEO. There is no Education Reimbursement for DEO Entry Plan candidates.
Rheostatic
Full Member
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This is the link you need: http://www.cda.forces.gc.ca/dli-dai/er-re/index-eng.aspengineer1 said:
B.Eng Is definitely OK for education reimbursement, however this program is only for serving CF members. There was a signing bonus for engineers, maybe that's what you're thinking of?
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George Wallace said:
Not in the sense of a lump sum payout, anyways.
But if he applied DEO, engineer1 would soon realize that he'd make Captain one hell of a lot sooner than someone coming in via ROTP - and I would imagine that chunk of change would go a long way to paying down student loans.
Rheostatic said:
I'm pretty sure the recruiting incentive for Engineers is over and done with....but I'm sure someone will be along to correct me if I'm wrong.
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Occam said:
Frankly, this depends upon how you define "sooner". Yes, I made Lt(N) sooner than some of the people I was in training with who had joined under the ROTP rather than DEO as I did. By about 9-10 months. But, those same people had decide to join the Canadian Armed Forces at the age of 17-18, whereas I decided to do so after I had already obtained my degree.
Needless to say, while I may have less time as a member of the Canadian Armed Forces as them, they have less time since they graduated. By sheer age, those who made the decision to join under the ROTP when they were fresh out of high school will certainly make Captain (or Lt(N)) at a younger age than their compatriots who decide to join the Canadian Armed Forces after they have obtained their requisite degree.
Rheostatic
Full Member
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I had heard the same thing, hence "was" not "is". I am curious to know if any of the recruiters here can tell us if they'll ever bring back the incentive.
George Wallace
Army.ca Dinosaur
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Rheostatic said:
Recruiting Incentives/Signing Bonus' are implemented to attract people to Trades/occupations that are short personnel/"stressed". Once those occupations are no longer stressed, those incentives/bonus' are no longer required and they "disappear".
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Rheostatic said:
I'll expand upon what George said a bit. When changes are made to re-implement signing bonuses for those with a BSc Eng, recruiters will be informed. I'm sure that their input will be considered when making this decision, but at the end of the day, the decision may be made including the input of the commander of the Canadian Forces Recruiting Group, but is it very unlikely that anyone actively working as a recruiter "on the ground" will be at that meeting. Thus, anyone you're asking to tell you if they will ever bring back the incentive will likely be unable to give you any actual advice on this matter. And honestly, even if you do ask the Commander of the CFRG, I do not think that he will be able to tell you what will happen in future years regarding a recruiting bonus for engineers. He would still need to guess what the result might be until the decision has been made.
tl;dr We only know current policy, we can't guess future policy.
I've searched, and have found nothing more recent than 2004 on this when the program was just being approved after the trial.
According to CBI 210.801, I'm entitled to 50% of my 'education expenses' up to $2k per year, $8k career total, while studying on a valid ILP in an approved program.
Because of my marks in high school, I get $3k a year from my school as a scholarship, and I furthermore was awarded a $1k scholarship this year. When I renewed my ILP after coming back from tour, the clerk over at PDev casually dropped into the conversation that my eligible expenses would be reduced dollar for dollar by the value of the scholarship; his exact words were "we're not going to pay you for being smart".
CDA-DLI's website seems to back this up: http://www.cda-acd.forces.gc.ca/dli-dai/er-re/faq/faqpri-eng.asp#9.
Yet I can find nothing in CBI 210.801 or in other documentation that states that an externally awarded scholarship or bursary is deemed to reduce my eligible educational expenses. The statement on DLI's website does not link to supporting policy; indeed the only applicable references are CBI 210.801, and DAOD 5031-3, which has since been cancelled by CANFORGEN. If this comes up with the knowledge I currently have I do intend to challenge it, but if anyone here has first hand knowledge of specific policies or directives I may have missed that can either save me some embarrassment or help me to substantiate a challenge I would appreciate it.
According to CBI 210.801, I'm entitled to 50% of my 'education expenses' up to $2k per year, $8k career total, while studying on a valid ILP in an approved program.
Because of my marks in high school, I get $3k a year from my school as a scholarship, and I furthermore was awarded a $1k scholarship this year. When I renewed my ILP after coming back from tour, the clerk over at PDev casually dropped into the conversation that my eligible expenses would be reduced dollar for dollar by the value of the scholarship; his exact words were "we're not going to pay you for being smart".
CDA-DLI's website seems to back this up: http://www.cda-acd.forces.gc.ca/dli-dai/er-re/faq/faqpri-eng.asp#9.
DLI said:
Yet I can find nothing in CBI 210.801 or in other documentation that states that an externally awarded scholarship or bursary is deemed to reduce my eligible educational expenses. The statement on DLI's website does not link to supporting policy; indeed the only applicable references are CBI 210.801, and DAOD 5031-3, which has since been cancelled by CANFORGEN. If this comes up with the knowledge I currently have I do intend to challenge it, but if anyone here has first hand knowledge of specific policies or directives I may have missed that can either save me some embarrassment or help me to substantiate a challenge I would appreciate it.
Rheostatic
Full Member
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I'm eager to hear the answer to this one. In the meantime, maybe start digging into your receipts?
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The CBI is silent on that situation. I don't know of any other subordinate policy documents (and a FAQ doesn't quite cut it).
I suspect that the intent is to not provide dual reimbursement. However, the devil is in the details. What follows is my interpretation of the somewhat terse FAQ and the CBI.
If the scholarship/bursary is unrestricted, then there is not problem - you got $4K and spent it on accomodation / food / alcohol / whatever; you're claiming reimbursement for tuition and eligible expenses paid for out of "other" money. (Yes, the funds are co-mingled in your bank account, but that's not relevant here).
If, on the other hand, the scholarships and bursaries you receive are applied immediately to your tuition, then you can only claim the amount you paid after the reduction.
In other words:
If your tuition bill reads:
Tuition - Basket Weaving 101 - $6000
Less Scholarship ($4000)
Amount owed $2000
Payment ($2000)
Balance 0
Then your reimbursement would be 50% of the $2000 you actually paid. If, on the other hand, the scholarship/bursary money went directly to you without conditions, the full amount of your basket weaving would be claimable (subject, of course, to the limits in the CBI).
I suspect that the intent is to not provide dual reimbursement. However, the devil is in the details. What follows is my interpretation of the somewhat terse FAQ and the CBI.
If the scholarship/bursary is unrestricted, then there is not problem - you got $4K and spent it on accomodation / food / alcohol / whatever; you're claiming reimbursement for tuition and eligible expenses paid for out of "other" money. (Yes, the funds are co-mingled in your bank account, but that's not relevant here).
If, on the other hand, the scholarships and bursaries you receive are applied immediately to your tuition, then you can only claim the amount you paid after the reduction.
In other words:
If your tuition bill reads:
Tuition - Basket Weaving 101 - $6000
Less Scholarship ($4000)
Amount owed $2000
Payment ($2000)
Balance 0
Then your reimbursement would be 50% of the $2000 you actually paid. If, on the other hand, the scholarship/bursary money went directly to you without conditions, the full amount of your basket weaving would be claimable (subject, of course, to the limits in the CBI).
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Ok here is the information I received from DLI
210.801 – EDUCATION REIMBURSEMENT – PRIMARY RESERVE
“education expenses” means:
(a) any costs of initial testing, enrolment fees and tuition to take a required course or program of required courses;
(b) any costs of necessary material for a required course, including books and instruments, but not paper, pens and other school supplies;
(c) any mandatory student union or council fees, library fees, laboratory fees and examination costs;
(d) any costs of printing and binding a thesis if necessary for a required course; and
(e) any other mandatory costs or fees, relating to a required course or program of required courses that are listed in the course syllabus or program documentation. (frais de scolarité)
210.801(7) (Claim for reimbursement) To obtain the reimbursement of education expenses, a CF 52 (General Allowance Claim) is to be submitted by the member in accordance with instructions issued by the Canadian Defence Academy, on or after the first day of the academic year following the academic year in which any required courses are successful completed, along with applicable receipts of education expenses and proof of successful completion of all courses for which reimbursement is requested for that academic year.
My understanding of the above CBI is that the member can claim for eligible expenses regardless of the number of scholarships received PROVIDED THAT THE MEMBER PAID FOR THE EXPENSE. If the scholarship is directed towards tuition and books the member did not pay for these expenses and thus can not be reimbursed. If the scholarship is not directed towards specific expenses and can be used for items such as room and board then the member is entitled to claim the amounts that he paid towards tuition and books up to the maximum of 2k per year / 8k lifetime under the current rules.
When you sign the CF52 you are certifying that these are actual expenses that you have incurred and are requesting reimbursement. Thus if the member has his tuition paid for via a scholarship and claims the amount it is fraud. It is also fraud to claim the tuition expenses on your taxes as a deduction if they are reimbursed by the Crown.
210.801 – EDUCATION REIMBURSEMENT – PRIMARY RESERVE
“education expenses” means:
(a) any costs of initial testing, enrolment fees and tuition to take a required course or program of required courses;
(b) any costs of necessary material for a required course, including books and instruments, but not paper, pens and other school supplies;
(c) any mandatory student union or council fees, library fees, laboratory fees and examination costs;
(d) any costs of printing and binding a thesis if necessary for a required course; and
(e) any other mandatory costs or fees, relating to a required course or program of required courses that are listed in the course syllabus or program documentation. (frais de scolarité)
210.801(7) (Claim for reimbursement) To obtain the reimbursement of education expenses, a CF 52 (General Allowance Claim) is to be submitted by the member in accordance with instructions issued by the Canadian Defence Academy, on or after the first day of the academic year following the academic year in which any required courses are successful completed, along with applicable receipts of education expenses and proof of successful completion of all courses for which reimbursement is requested for that academic year.
My understanding of the above CBI is that the member can claim for eligible expenses regardless of the number of scholarships received PROVIDED THAT THE MEMBER PAID FOR THE EXPENSE. If the scholarship is directed towards tuition and books the member did not pay for these expenses and thus can not be reimbursed. If the scholarship is not directed towards specific expenses and can be used for items such as room and board then the member is entitled to claim the amounts that he paid towards tuition and books up to the maximum of 2k per year / 8k lifetime under the current rules.
When you sign the CF52 you are certifying that these are actual expenses that you have incurred and are requesting reimbursement. Thus if the member has his tuition paid for via a scholarship and claims the amount it is fraud. It is also fraud to claim the tuition expenses on your taxes as a deduction if they are reimbursed by the Crown.
