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Pathfinder

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enfield

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We all end up at the same boards eventually.. ;o)

Anyways, the British Light Infantry Regiment have two battalions - one is airmobile, the other is armoured. "Light" is a tasking name left over from way back when, same as "cavalry".
 

Fusaki

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what exactly do Pathfinders do?

i found a list of the prerequisite courses for the patrol pathfinder course, so i have a general idea of the role they play. but what is the focus of the patrol pathfinder course itself?

is the main mission long range recce? are they always used in conjunction with the Para Coys or is planning drop zones just one fuction the unit can serve? is there emphasis on direct action missions? are Pathfinders just found in the light infantry battallions or are they spread throughout the regiments? what do they have in common with the JTF2? how are the units unlike each other? where do snipers fit into the grand scheme of things?

like i said, i found a list of the prerequisite courses, but i didnt understand some of the acronyms used. what is JLC/JNCO?

well, i guess thats enough questions for now. if anyone can point me to a website or suggest a book where i can get some more info please let me know. thanks in advance!!!
 

Troopasaurus

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as far as i know Pathfinders are basicly paratroopers in which there task is to drop into the drop zone before the actual drop and do a recce of the area make sure it is sutable when they jump they bring a air traffic controller in with them and they call for the final drop and lay markers for the drop.

JLC = junior leaders course
 

Jarnhamar

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I think the pathfinder course is the hardest course in the canadian forces. (Some people will say combat diver though)

I‘ve seen people who i consider super soldiers fail that course, it‘s just brutal. The US sends guys like rangers and their force recon marines up here and they often say it‘s harder then their ranger or whatever training was by a considerable difference.

From what i know of their function (through reading, talking with guys from the course etc..) It‘s basically like Aurora Said. They secure the Drop zone for paratroopers or cargo drops. They would freefall parachute (though not always) into set DZ, patrl around it to clear it of enemies, remove obstructions etc.. and then call the aircraft in.
I think however that they also cover a wide range of other things, on one pathfinder course run up in pet the courses final excersise was to assault a nuclear compound commando style so to speak. I think pathfinders could or would be used for a wide range of things. Pathfinders are usually organized into platoons but i dont believe canada has enough guys to actually fill that. If they need them they just take the path finder qualified personal out of the jump companies.

JTF2? Who are they, who told you about them? ;)
 
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riddleofsteel

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"what do they have in common with the JTF2?"

There is some overlap with JTF2‘s green role. The similarities are mainly in their methods. Example: Pathfinders are usually inserted by parachute, however they are also able to be inserted by submarine, boats... any means that will work, really. I believe that a secondary role is recce, particularly long range and behind the lines stuff (please correct me if I‘m wrong on that one).

"where do snipers fit into the grand scheme of things?"

Snipers are a very valuable source of intelligence on the battlefield. They are often ahead of the main body of troops or behind the lines and they are equipped with an assortment of high grade optics and laser rangefinders - not to mention a high degree of proficiency at concealment. This allows them to gather detailed information on the enemy. Snipers are also able to provide cover for troop movements and convoys. Countersniper roles are of great value as well.

Pathfinders and snipers are a very good source of recruits for JTF2 because of the specialized training and high degree of proficiency required, not to mention the experience they may have.
 
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the patriot

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Bear in mind that the pool of applicants for JTF-2 can come from anyone in the CAF that can meet the requirements. Many a man has been broken trying to meet the selections training required to become part of JTF-2.

-the patriot- :cdn:
 

Jarnhamar

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If you ask me with all the work their putting into JTF2 their severly ignoring the rest of the military.
The states use SF troops quite a bit but they also have a powerful powerful normal (for lack of a better word) military. We‘re pumping tons of cash into the JTF but our military keeps losing cash. Our helicopters fall out of the sky we don‘t have enough uniforms for all our soldiers and most of our equipment is 20 years old or more.
 
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Guzman

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ok,this is sort of a continuation form my last post but i didnt want it to be ignored,so here it goes...

if anyone is for some reason folloing my post,u could see that i have every intention on doing some sort of special forces...my dream being the army rangers but seeing as that im in canada..anyways.
i have a few questions on the pathfinders

1,how long have they exsisted?

2,are they a seperate special force with its own CO? if so who and where are they?

3,what are the pre-reqs for trying out?can reserves get in?

4,on completion,is there any insignia related to that course,unit...ect

ok,thats it for now,im sure there will be more soon as u guys awnser these ;) aslo,anyother info would be great...any books or any media on this topic i should know about?
 

combat_medic

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1,how long have they exsisted?
>>Since WWII

2,are they a seperate special force with its own CO? if so who and where are they?
>>They‘re not a special force, the Rangers are also not a special force. The Airborne, Marine Force recon, snipers, and other such groups are also NOT special forces. They are elite forces. While they have superior training and skills, they still employ conventional warfare and tactics. Green Berets, SAS, SBS, JTF2, Navy Seals and such are Special because they employ non conventional warfare (hearts and minds, anti terrorism, language training etc.). Pathfinders are not their own unit; they used to have a Pathfinder platoon in the CAR, but since their disbandment, they are scattered around, usually in the recce platoons of battalions with an aiborne infantry company.

3,what are the pre-reqs for trying out?can reserves get in?
>>Basic Para, military freefall parachutist, LZ/DZ, recce, ISCC, and maybe a few more. Maybe 100 people in the entire CF have it (out of 60,000). The last course to be run had 20 people start and only 5 passed, 2 of which were Americans. As a reservist, your chances are better of getting struck by lightning... 10 times. One reservist EVER has been given the course (while in the reserves), and he‘s part of the ONLY airborne capable reserve unit in Canada.

4,on completion,is there any insignia related to that course,unit...ect
>>You get the Pathfinder torch to wear on your uniform.

>>If you really want this, don‘t count on getting it for the first 15 years of your career. You‘d be better off going to the US... you can go on the Ranger course within a couple years of joining.

And ALL of this is assuming you‘re a pt GOD!!! The PT test just to get on basic para is tough enough, let alone all the other prerequisite courses.
 

Recce41

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The only prereqs required are LZ/DZ, even then they run one the first week of course for those who are not.
You must be a volnteer, Also the basic inf patrol course off TQ3. For Armour they only require the basic Armour Recce course, which we get on QL3 also.
For other arms you will not be a Pathfinder although you wear the touch, you are listed as a Pathfollower. This came from the old WW2 course for all arms that were not Inf/Armour.
The first Pathfinders were from the Recce Corp that were Armour by trade, but due to their short numbers most started to be Inf after mid 43.
You as a Res could get on the course if the world stopped and every reg force member fell off. :mg:
 
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riddleofsteel

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I agree with that to an exent. Putting more money and pers into JTF2 has a lot to do with politics and the appearance that Ottawa is "doing something" about the threat of terrorism, not to mention that it does enhance our ability to deal with said threat. JTF2 should have the funding. The rest of the forces need money and people as well (more preaching to the choir here on that one). I never thought I‘d live to see the day when I would see NDP folks on TV saying that the Forces need money... and that has happened more than once in recent months. It‘s slowly sinking in with some people that Canadian soveriegnty is affected by not being able to protect our territory and project our will abroad. Even people on the far left are seeing this is a reality.

On the other hand, it also provides Ottawa with some convenient excuses about defense funding. :rolleyes:

Bottom line: We need to not only encourage funding, but ensure the availability of the high quality training required to succeed at becoming (and maintaining the skills required) a Pathfinder or a JTF2 member.
 
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Guzman

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thanks for all he info.the only thing that i dont get is why as a reserve u wont get a chance...b/c of fitness?if thats it,its retarted,why would they judge ur fitness level just b/c ur a reserve...btw,the only reason im going res is b/c of personal family issues that requires me to stay home for the next 2-3 years...other than that,id be in regs.
 
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sgt.shmedly102

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D*mn, how many kids are on here? Assuming that it‘s not too different up north from the way it is down here, the reason you will never see pathfinder as a reservist has nothing to do with prejudice, fitness, or funding. The reserves just don‘t need it. Pathfinders have a specific job: mainly to recon and mark DZ/LZ‘s for initial-entry forces. Now what are the chances of a reserve unit ‘kicking in the door‘ thus necessatating their own pathfinders. It‘s good that you have shown the enthusiasim and motivation to want to go above and beyond, and that you are looking for information before you rush ahead, but you seem to display some of the tendancies of a ‘badge hound.‘ Remember, the military trains to be prepared to fight wars, not so you can have fun, rack up a bunch of hooah badges, and feel like a bad-*** commando. Everyone wants to be a high-speed SCUBA HANO LRRP SEAL Recon sniper. Then they find out just how hard the Army is to begin with.

My advice, get experience. You have to crawl before you can run.
 
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Guzman

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ok...ppl like u are the ppl i hate to get "advice" from.u dont no me.i am not a kid and i know that this takes time...i never said that i wanted to do this by next summer...i asked questions,either anwser them or ignore this post and save ur ignorant assumptions.
 

Doug VT

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The pre-req‘s for the Patrol Pathfinder Course are as follows:

-PLQ=Primary Leadership Course.
-Basic Para
-RECCE (recommended but can be overlooked)
-DZ/LZ Controller (usually done just prior to the course)

The course that is running now will be over in a few days and is only the forth course since the disbandment of the Airborne Regiment.
Yes, reservists can and do attend the course.
The Canadian PPF course is arguably the most difficult course in the CF. Definitely more difficult than the US Pathfinder course and Ranger School (admitted by US Rangers who have attended the course and by Canadian‘s who are Ranger qualified who decided that PPF wasn‘t worth it!)
 
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Guzman

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thnx doug....

how often is this course offerd and would u happen to know how many recruits they take?
 

Recce41

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Doug
The PLQ is not required but recommended. I was slated for the course running now but due to operations and tasking I couldn‘t attend. The PLQ is recommended due to the Ptl ICs EOs, but there were yng Cpls on courses also will no ISSC back then. We all know someone has to hump the kit (HAHA). Now they take the Recce you and the Armour guys do on QL3 just as good, if you come just come from a fighting Coy/Sqn. If you come from HQs Coy/Sqn you require the CO check mark.
There is still the required PT test at the beginning. We all know CABC(CPC), run till you puke.They take about 24 pers, but my brother in law had 12 on his. Due to the high fail and hurt rate.I have the Study package, anyone that wants it I will send you . If anyone does EMail me, I will be out for a while so I will send it when I get back. Just a note anyone who trys it is not a failure, he‘s stronger for he tryed. This goes for any course that is that hard. :mg:
 

Doug VT

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You at least need your JLC/5B. That‘s one pre-req that they won‘t drop. The PPF is a leadership course.
 
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Badger

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Sgt.shmedly102 answered one of your questions, he should have been thanked instead of called ignorant. If I may pitch in any advice of my own it would be to fully spell out your words (ie. you instead of u, know instead of no, and people instead of ppl), attention to detail is crucial in special forces and elite forces like the Pathfinders.
 
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Guzman

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what does the use of "net short forms" have anything to do with the conversation,besides that stop trying to start somthing.it had nothing to do with u so leave it alone.
 
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