E
Evan
Guest
Does anybody know anything about these troops(they may not exsist anymore). i read a mention of them in my JTF2 book and wanted to know more. Any info would be obliged.
:warstory:
:warstory:
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Here‘s an old Maple Leaf Article on The Pathfinders:
I believe they are still around , and it is quite a tough course to complete.
Maple Leaf Article
Pathfinders strategize to survive
By Jody Peloquin
8 WING TRENTON - After eight gruelling weeks and a final three-day escape and evasion exercise, seven tenacious soldiers graduated from the Patrol Pathfinder Course last month.
Dressed only in loose-fitting grey coveralls inscribed with bright red identification numbers and boots without laces, the candidates began the final phase of the course on October 20 as their instructors drove them around southeastern Ontario from 10:30 p.m. to 5:30 a.m. to disorient them.
After showing them the location of their first safe house on vague maps and telling them the recognition signals to exchange with their first partisans, the instructors released the candidates in three small teams north of the rural town of Madoc.
During the three-day exercise they trekked to four safe houses, sometimes receiving food, shelter or clothing, as 14 police officers from the Durham Regional Police Tactical Support Unit hunted them using a police tracking dog team, patrol cars and a helicopter equipped with a heat sensor. The candidates evaded detection by the unit throughout the exercise.
The partisans residing in the last safe house, Jake and Sharon Warkentin, said they were impressed with the candidates‘ professionalism.
"They were on a mission," said Mrs.Warkentin.The candidates had concealed themselves behind nearby rocks while they waited to be taken across the lake by boat. "They were totally invisible in those rocks," she said. "I thought this is not a game to them, this is life or death."
Once across the lake, a combat rescue team from Trenton extracted the candidates by helicopter.
"They did exceptionally well. They moved a lot faster than we thought they would, and they found well- concealed areas to hide themselves," said Captain Troy Neufeld, course officer."They used a lot of innovation and initiative to find warm shelter. They lived off the land in terms of finding scraps and whatever supplies they could find to survive for the three days they were out there."
"It was fitting for us to succeed so well at the end of the course as a team," said Patrol Pathfinder graduate Captain Cayle Oberwarth of the 2nd Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment, based at Gagetown."It was a nice finishing touch to the course."
Of the 34 candidates who began the course in late August, 7 graduated, receiving their Pathfinder Torch October 26 at the Canadian Parachute Centre.
"It‘s very exciting. For a lot of us, the Pathfinder Torch is the apex of high achievement in the Canadian Army," said Capt Oberwarth. "To be able to finally achieve that is a very big deal for all of us." Jody Peloquin is a staff writer for The Contact.
I believe they are still around , and it is quite a tough course to complete.
Maple Leaf Article
Pathfinders strategize to survive
By Jody Peloquin
8 WING TRENTON - After eight gruelling weeks and a final three-day escape and evasion exercise, seven tenacious soldiers graduated from the Patrol Pathfinder Course last month.
Dressed only in loose-fitting grey coveralls inscribed with bright red identification numbers and boots without laces, the candidates began the final phase of the course on October 20 as their instructors drove them around southeastern Ontario from 10:30 p.m. to 5:30 a.m. to disorient them.
After showing them the location of their first safe house on vague maps and telling them the recognition signals to exchange with their first partisans, the instructors released the candidates in three small teams north of the rural town of Madoc.
During the three-day exercise they trekked to four safe houses, sometimes receiving food, shelter or clothing, as 14 police officers from the Durham Regional Police Tactical Support Unit hunted them using a police tracking dog team, patrol cars and a helicopter equipped with a heat sensor. The candidates evaded detection by the unit throughout the exercise.
The partisans residing in the last safe house, Jake and Sharon Warkentin, said they were impressed with the candidates‘ professionalism.
"They were on a mission," said Mrs.Warkentin.The candidates had concealed themselves behind nearby rocks while they waited to be taken across the lake by boat. "They were totally invisible in those rocks," she said. "I thought this is not a game to them, this is life or death."
Once across the lake, a combat rescue team from Trenton extracted the candidates by helicopter.
"They did exceptionally well. They moved a lot faster than we thought they would, and they found well- concealed areas to hide themselves," said Captain Troy Neufeld, course officer."They used a lot of innovation and initiative to find warm shelter. They lived off the land in terms of finding scraps and whatever supplies they could find to survive for the three days they were out there."
"It was fitting for us to succeed so well at the end of the course as a team," said Patrol Pathfinder graduate Captain Cayle Oberwarth of the 2nd Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment, based at Gagetown."It was a nice finishing touch to the course."
Of the 34 candidates who began the course in late August, 7 graduated, receiving their Pathfinder Torch October 26 at the Canadian Parachute Centre.
"It‘s very exciting. For a lot of us, the Pathfinder Torch is the apex of high achievement in the Canadian Army," said Capt Oberwarth. "To be able to finally achieve that is a very big deal for all of us." Jody Peloquin is a staff writer for The Contact.
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There‘s no pathfinder platoon anymore, but they still run the course for qualified troops to be able to maintain the skills. It‘s an incredibly difficult course to get on, and even more difficult to pass (90-95% failure rate). At a guess, I would say there are 30 or so qualified pathfinders still serving in the CF.
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But you don‘t need the Pathfinder course to be in Recce Ptl. That‘s why I was told there‘s such a shortage of qualified Pathfinders.
D
DnA
Guest
there was an article on the dnd site awhile ago, about the canadian pathfinder school, i‘ll see if I can dig it up
also, one thing I remember from it, a US Army Airborne Ranger was taking the course, an he said it was harder then Ranger School
also, one thing I remember from it, a US Army Airborne Ranger was taking the course, an he said it was harder then Ranger School
J
Jason Jarvis
Guest
An old skydiving buddy of mine who was a Pathfinder said that a Ranger-qualified candidate on the same course with him found the Pathfinder course much more demanding. He didn‘t say the Ranger course was a pushover, mind you, but that it was excellent preparation. My buddy said it was the hardest thing he‘d ever done by far.
If that‘s the case, then the Pathfinder course must be something out of this world -- right up there with JTF-2 or even the SAS.
If that‘s the case, then the Pathfinder course must be something out of this world -- right up there with JTF-2 or even the SAS.
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The Pathfinder course is about 3 times longer than the ranger course, with WAY more prerequisites. People who do the Pathfinder course first usually top a ranger course. By no means is either easy, but the Pathfinder course is heads and tails above the Ranger course.
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Honestly, you can‘t compare the Ranger course to the PPF. They‘re both good courses and they‘re both quite different.
The pass rate for the PPF is around 30-40%, and there are easily over 100 qualified Pathfinders in the CF today. In my unit alone there are probably close to 30...
So far the pass rate for US Rangers on the course has been around the 40-50% area(no more than 6 US Rangers have attempted the course since it was re-instated)
Very few Pathfinders go on the Ranger course at all, and vice versa. Why should you get ALL the cool courses.
Don‘t get caught up in the which one is better argument, they both run on different doctrine and emphasize different training.
The pass rate for the PPF is around 30-40%, and there are easily over 100 qualified Pathfinders in the CF today. In my unit alone there are probably close to 30...
So far the pass rate for US Rangers on the course has been around the 40-50% area(no more than 6 US Rangers have attempted the course since it was re-instated)
Very few Pathfinders go on the Ranger course at all, and vice versa. Why should you get ALL the cool courses.
Don‘t get caught up in the which one is better argument, they both run on different doctrine and emphasize different training.
J
Jason Jarvis
Guest
Doug makes a great point.
However, after re-reading the Maple Leaf article, it seems to me that the Pathfinder course seems rather out of place for the CF. It appears to me that Pathfinders are best suited to long-range, behind-enemy-lines strategic missions -- which doesn‘t sound like anything our army has ever been asked to do. And isn‘t this what JTF-2 is for?
Was the Pathfinder course originally created so we could drop guys behind an invading Soviet airborne force, either here in Canada or in Europe?
It would also seem that the Ranger course would be a better course for today‘s Canadian military, especially with the increased emphasis on mobile, light infantry.
However, after re-reading the Maple Leaf article, it seems to me that the Pathfinder course seems rather out of place for the CF. It appears to me that Pathfinders are best suited to long-range, behind-enemy-lines strategic missions -- which doesn‘t sound like anything our army has ever been asked to do. And isn‘t this what JTF-2 is for?
Was the Pathfinder course originally created so we could drop guys behind an invading Soviet airborne force, either here in Canada or in Europe?
It would also seem that the Ranger course would be a better course for today‘s Canadian military, especially with the increased emphasis on mobile, light infantry.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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I think a sort of ranger course would be great for the infantry. Like someone mentioned a litle while ago, a commando course could do wonders. Again trying to justify something like that to the public might be hard. "Well if we didn‘t have any soldiers then there would be no more wars and everyone would live in peace" Ya right.
Pathfinders also secure drop zones for paratroopers. I‘m not that educated in airborne tactics but i don‘t think paratroopers just jump into an area that looks good. Pathfinders, in theory, need to land first, clear the dz of obsticles or whatever. Take out sentries and mark the zone for the aircraft. They also provide security for the jumpers as they are comming down and re-grouping.
Something like the ranger course which is based around light infantry platoon and company sized raids (?) seems like something that would be right up our ally. Especially considering we have only 9 reg force infantry battalions. 3 of whom are light or in a light role.
I figure why not make these guys even better then they are instead of having them sit around a platoon room telling stories or giving shovels a fresh coat of clp.
Pathfinders also secure drop zones for paratroopers. I‘m not that educated in airborne tactics but i don‘t think paratroopers just jump into an area that looks good. Pathfinders, in theory, need to land first, clear the dz of obsticles or whatever. Take out sentries and mark the zone for the aircraft. They also provide security for the jumpers as they are comming down and re-grouping.
Something like the ranger course which is based around light infantry platoon and company sized raids (?) seems like something that would be right up our ally. Especially considering we have only 9 reg force infantry battalions. 3 of whom are light or in a light role.
I figure why not make these guys even better then they are instead of having them sit around a platoon room telling stories or giving shovels a fresh coat of clp.
J
Jason Jarvis
Guest
This sounds like a "special forces" course in all but the name. I think it‘s great that such a course exists, but does it still make sense considering the army‘s present and future missions?
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Well, in theory, wouldn‘t Pathfinders have been much more common during the days of the Airborne Regiment since they probably relied on them more than any other unit. But, of course, I‘m just a reserve private 
Recce41, would you mind going into any further detail of the contents of your study package? I am somewhat interested in these Pathfinders as well
Recce41, would you mind going into any further detail of the contents of your study package? I am somewhat interested in these Pathfinders as well
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The earlier use of Pathfinders was as the Recce Platoon of the Airborne, kind of an elite of the elite, without being "special forces" per se. That being said, it‘s pretty much just semantics as to the naming. Yes, it‘s just as hard, but since it falls under the definition of "conventional warfare", it‘s technically not considered special forces, but rather elite.
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