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ANNEX E -- TERMS OFFERED ON ENROLMENT, TRANSFER, AND OCCUPATION TRANSFER (OT)GENERAL
1.     Except as specified in 6-1, the rank, seniority, and QL
authorized on enrolment or transfer shall be determined by NDHQ/DPCOR.
2.     The terms offered on OT shall be in accordance with the provisions of
11-12.
TIME CREDIT FOR PROMOTION (TCP)
3.     Calculation of TCP is based on a member's previous service, rank, and
military and/or civilian qualifications. TCP may be granted by NDHQ/DPCOR
on enrolment or transfer and will determine, along with any seniority
credits granted, the earliest eligibility date for promotion to the next
higher substantive rank. Applications to amend TCP will be considered only
up to the date three years from the date of the member's latest enrolment
or transfer.
ACTING RANK AND PROVISIONAL QUALIFICATION LEVELS
4.     When acting rank or a provisional QL authorized on enrolment requires
a QL or rank qualification within a specific period, or a period of
observation is set by NDHQ/DPCOR, the effective date of promotion to
substantive rank or removal of the provisional status will be the date the
member meets the required standards on the first attempt. Where a member
fails to qualify on the first attempt, the case shall be dealt with by CRB.
Where a member fails to qualify in the time specified, NDHQ/DPCOR shall be
notified of the circumstances, in which case the following applies;
    a.   If the delay was due to Service reasons, an extension of
         qualifying period will be considered .

    b.   If the delay was due to other than Service reasons, the member
         will--

         (1)  be reverted to a lower rank (not below Pte(T)), or
              downgraded to a lower QL level for which the member can
              qualify;

         (2)  compulsory OT to another MOC; such an OT will be for
              inefficiency and the member will be paid in accordance with
               QR&O article 204.30(5); or

         (3)  be considered for release.

5.     When an officer cadet fails or withdraws from any officer training
plan and requests re-engagement as a NCM, or when an officer is released
and is re-enrolled as a NCM, NDHQ/DPCOR will advise the terms to be
offered.

Issued 1991-05-10


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANNEX F -- ALTERATION OF PUNISHMENT AND PROMOTION FOLLOWING REDUCTION, REVERSION AND RELINQUISHMENT OF RANKGENERAL
1.     This Annex amplifies  QR&O 3.08, 11.10, 11.11, 11.12, and prescribes
the policy relating to alteration of a punishment of reduction in rank as
well as that relating to the promotion of members who have been reverted in
rank or have relinquished rank. In cases where a sentence is altered in
accordance with QR & O Chapter 114, Section 4, the policy also applies
to the altered sentence.
2.     When a member is reverted to a lower rank or is reduced in rank, or
relinquishes rank, that member is eligible to count for seniority in the
lower ranks together with all previous service in the higher rank or ranks
together with all previous continuous service in the lower rank.
3.     Except for paragraphs 6, 11, 13 and 15 of this Annex, where a member
who has been reduced in rank is subsequently promoted, seniority in the
higher rank is determined in accordance with paragraph 23 of this order.
4.     Except for paragraph 22 of this annex, where reversion, reduction, or
relinquishment in rank is other than to Pte, eligibility for promotion to
MCpl or above shall be based on the criteria specified in Annex A.
Note -- Seniority has no bearing on entitlement to incentive pay. Incentive
pay shall be applied in accordance with 204-2.
REDUCTION
5.     When reduction in rank or loss of seniority occurs as a result of a
sentence by a Service tribunal, the CO shall notify NDHQ/DPCAOR by message
stating:
    a.   the member's SIN, rank, name and MOC; and

    b.   the rank to which the member has been reduced and the effective
         date of reduction or, in the case of loss of seniority, the
         amount in years, months, or days, the new seniority date, and the
         effective date of the punishment.

6.     When a Cpl (including MCpl appointment) is sentenced to a punishment
of Service imprisonment or detention and the sentence is suspended, the CO
may grant A/Cpl(P) rank. If the member is subsequently committed, prior to
signing the committal order, the CO shall revoke the A/Cpl(P). Where a
period of suspension of sentence is completed, during which time a member
has held an A/Cpl(P) rank, promotion to substantive Cpl may be authorized
effective the day following completion of a suspended sentence.
Determination of seniority will be:

    a.   if promoted A/Cpl(P) the date of sentence, from the member's last
         previous date of promotion to Cpl; or

    b.   if promoted A/Cpl(P) during a period of suspension of sentence
         effective a date other than the date of sentence, from the
         member's last previous date of promotion to Cpl, less the number
         of days of the suspension of sentence served at the private rank.

7.     Following termination of service imprisonment or detention, the CO may
promote a qualified member to Cpl. The seniority date in such cases shall
be:

    a.   if the effective date of promotion is the day following release
         from detention or imprisonment, the date of the member's last
         previous promotion to Cpl; or

    b.   if the effective date of promotion is any other date, the date
         determined under paragraph 24 of this order.

8.     Eligibility for subsequent promotion will be determined by the first
merit board convened following the date of promotion providing the member
meets the criteria in the Tables to Annex A.

9.     When the findings of a Service tribunal who sentenced a member to a
punishment of reduction in rank have been quashed by an authority pursuant
to  QR&O 114.15 or 114.55, the member is deemed not to have been awarded
the punishment and that member's rank and seniority is that which was held
immediately prior to sentencing. Where the reduction has been from MCpl
appointment, the quashing authority may direct reinstatement of the MCpl
appointment.

10.    A punishment imposed by a Service tribunal can be altered by remission
(cancellation in whole or part of sentence), commutation (changing the type
of punishment by awarding a punishment lower in the scale), or mitigation
(awarding a less amount of the same punishment).

REMISSION

11.    Where a punishment of reduction in rank is remitted, that is,
cancelled or withdrawn, the member will have the rank and seniority date
held immediately prior to the imposition of the punishment, as if no such
punishment of reduction in rank had been pronounced or as if the punishment
of reduction in rank had not been an obligatory accompanying punishment to
one of detention or imprisonment.

12.    Where a punishment of reduction in rank from the rank of Cpl,
resulting in the relinquishment of the member's appointment as MCpl is
remitted, the authority having power to appoint the member to MCpl may
direct re-appointment of the member to MCpl effective either as of the date
original punishment was imposed or as of any subsequent date.




COMMUTATION

13.    If a punishment of reduction in rank is commuted, that is, a
punishment lower in the scale is substituted, the member will hold the rank
and seniority date the member held immediately prior to the original
punishment being imposed, as if no such punishment had been imposed, except
where the punishment substituted by way of commutation involves a
forfeiture of seniority, in which case the seniority date in the rank held
immediately prior to the original punishment being imposed will be adjusted
by the amount of seniority forfeited under the new punishment.

14.    Where a punishment of reduction in rank from the rank of Cpl,
resulting in the relinquishment of the member's appointment as MCpl,
and in those cases where reduction was from Sgt and above, is commuted, the
authority having power to appoint the member to MCpl may direct
re-appointment to MCpl effective as of the date the original punishment was
imposed or as of any subsequent date.

MITIGATION

15.    If a punishment of reduction in rank imposed on a member is mitigated,
that is, if a lesser amount of the same punishment is substituted, the
member will have seniority in the rank to which the member was reduced by
the new punishment, calculated from the seniority date when last in that
rank as if the member had remained in that rank from that time, provided
the member has had continuous service since that time.

16.    Where a punishment of reduction in rank from a rank above Cpl imposed
on a member who previously held the appointment of MCpl is mitigated to a
punishment of reduction in rank to Cpl, the authority having the power to
appoint to MCpl may direct re-appointment of the member to MCpl effective
either as of the date the original punishment was imposed or as of any
subsequent date.

AUTHORITY

17.    The authority having power to appoint to MCpl is NDHQ/DGPCOR.

REVERSION

18.    Subject to paragraphs 19 to 22 of this Annex NDHQ/DGPCOR may:

    a.   revert a member to a lower rank for inefficiency;

    b.   revert a member to a lower rank upon civil conviction for an
         offence that constitutes misconduct; or

    c.   with or without reversion, transfer a member to any MOC for
         inefficiency.

19.    Any reversion or OT for inefficiency must be initiated by the member's
CO. The CO's recommendations shall be forwarded together with complete
substantiation to NDHQ/DGPCOR. After receipt of the CO's report and after
consideration of all aspects of the case, a CRB will authorize:

    a.   retention of the member in the current MOC, with or without
         reversion;

    b.   retention in the current MOC and restriction to the member's
         present rank and terms of service;

    c.   compulsory OT; or

    d.   release of the member.

20.    When a member is reverted for inefficiency, that member is not
eligible for promotion for a minimum period of one year following the date
of reversion. If, however, the reversion for inefficiency is due to a
career course failure, that member is eligible for promotion to substantive
rank upon successful completion of the career course which resulted in the
member's reversion.

21.    When a member is reverted and is OT for inefficiency, that member
becomes eligible for promotion to the next higher rank in the new MOC when
the eligibility criteria outlined in Annex A have been met. The effective
date of OT will be the date of reversion. Failure to qualify for the
appropriate level in the new MOC within a period specified by NDHQ/DPCOR
may result in release action being taken.

22.    When a member has been convicted for an offence by a civil authority,
a report is submitted to NDHQ/DPLS (Director Personnel Legal Services)
under the provisions of  QR&O article 19.62 and the CO shall review the
circumstances of the offence and determine if a recommendation for
reversion for misconduct is also warranted under  QR&O article 11.11.
Where a recommendation for reversion is warranted, complete substantiation
made in accordance with paragraph 19 shall be forwarded to NDHQ/DGPCOR.

RELINQUISHMENT OF RANK

23.    For the purposes of this Annex, relinquishment of rank means reversion
to a lower rank at the member's request. Such requests may be for personal
reasons or for purposes of OT or transfer. The approving authority for
relinquishment of rank is N DHQ/DPCAOR.

24.    Relinquishment of rank will not be approved where such action would
permit early release of the member as a result of a change in the member's
retirement age.

25.    Except in the case of a transfer or OT, a member who relinquishes a
rank shall not be considered for promotion until such time as the promotion
authority is advised through normal channels that the member wishes to be

considered for promotion in the future.

Issued 1991-05-10


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANNEX F, APPENDIX 1 -- GUIDELINES FOR ACTION TO ALTER A PUNISHMENT OF REDUCTION IN RANK
1.     The viewpoint required is one of "alteration of punishment" rather
than "promotion" or "restoration of rank".

2.     A sentence can be composed of one or more punishments. Each punishment
can be altered independently of action taken with respect to any other
punishment.

3.     The effect of commutation, mitigation or remission of the punishment
of reduction in rank does not depend on the particular sentence (that is,
detention, or reduction and fine, or reduction alone, etc) that was chosen
by a Service tribunal.

4.     By virtue of section 185 of the National Defence Act (NDA), a
commutation, mitigation or remission of a punishment puts the new
punishment (or absence of it, in the case of remission) in place as if it
had been imposed at the time of the initial sentencing. The mitigation,
remission or commutation of a punishment of reduction in rank may be made
at any time but, when made, has effect back to the sentencing date. The
date on which the CO or other authority acts (to remit mitigate or commute)
has no effect on the calculation of seniority.

5.     Occasionally a CO or OCC wishes a punished NCM to endure the full
effect of rank reduction for a specific period or until there is evidence
that the NCM has learned a lesson, then to be placed back in the original
rank effective a date subsequent to initial sentencing. This cannot be done
by mitigation, remission or commutation; it can only be done by promotion.

6.     MCpl appointment held at the time of sentencing or anytime prior to
sentencing will not be recovered automatically when an authority remits,
mitigates or commutes the punishment or reduction in rank. The appropriate
appointing authority may choose to reappoint the member to MCpl. The
effective date of reappointment may coincide with the original sentencing
date or may be any subsequent date.

7.     Example situations

    a.   Sgt X; seniority date in that rank is 1 Jan 85 and seniority in
         Cpl rank was 4 Aug 73; sentences 16 May 86 to 3 months
         imprisonment; serves 62 days; in September the OCC mitigates the
         reduction in rank punishment to reduction to Cpl.

         Result: Cpl X is considered to have never gone below Cpl rank;
         seniority is what it would have been if Cpl X had not been
         promoted to Sgt.

    b.   Sgt Y; seniority date 1 Jan 83; sentenced 20 Jun 86 to 30 days
         imprisonment; serves 22 days; in September 86 the OCC remits
         reduction in rank punishment.

         Result: Sgt Y is considered to have never lost Sgt rank;
         seniority is unchanged.

    c.   MCpl Z; seniority date 10 June 81; sentenced 15 Aug 86 to 30 days
         detention; serves 22 days, in Nov 86 the CO recommends that MCpl
         Z be reinstated as MCpl effective 22 Dec 86.

         Result: The reduction in rank punishment may not be remitted
         effective 22 Dec 86; the only available effective date is 15 Aug
         86. To achieve the objective of keeping ex-MCpl Z at Pte rank 15
         Aug -22 Dec the OCC may recommend promotion to Cpl, effective 22
         Dec, and may recommend (or direct) appointment of Z as MCpl
         effective 22 Dec or a later date.

Issued 1991-05-10

 
ArtyNewbie said:
lazy OCDT's eh hows this 10 years in the CBI's change near daily and the ones regarding pay are almost completely written in NDHQese, so forgive me for asking the SME for advice (by the way the last tp cdr/divo I asked for advice on pay matters cost me nearly $2600 because he didn't know and instead of sending me the way of the pay office winged it) but then again I always thought that was a sign of leadership asking the sr NCO's for adivce

You're right about the changing regs.

When I was a new Clk, all our pubs were printed - an amendment list came out every two weeks (as I recall - timing may have been different, but it was on a regular schedule), there was a brief synopsis sheet on the front, which was passed around, and everybody knew what had been amended.  The junior clerk physically entered the amendments into the book.  I worked for two Chief Clerks who (no kidding) had the majority of the CFAOs and QR&Os MEMORIZED.  When an amendment came out, they knew what had changed, and read those amendments.  Even for those of us with less prodigious memories, it was possible to "know" the answer without looking it up, if it was an area with which you were familiar.

When the current electronic system came in, it was no longer possible to do this (even I had a LOT of the CFAOs memorized).  You NEVER knew when there had been an amendment - this meant that a Clk had to PHYSICALLY LOOK UP THE ANSWER, every time there was a question - you THOUGHT you knew, but you could never be sure.  This lead to a significantly increased time for clerks to answer counter queries.

Of course, then we amalgamated three trades, leaving even LESS time for Clks to answer questions - do you see where I'm headed here?

Taking care of your troops is a LEADERSHIP function - not a clerical one.  Clerks can ASSIST you with that function, but they can't DO it for you.  If you desire to be an effective officer, you need to get familiar with the pubs - and THAT is all George and kincanuks were attempting to steer you toward realizing.  (Oh - and learning NDHQese is ALSO a required skill for Officers (and Sr NCO/WOs).

HANFD


Roy

 
And hopefully the last of it: 
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ANNEX G -- COMPLETION AND DISTRIBUTION OF MODIFIED FORM CF 743AGENERAL
1.    Form CF 743A, UER Qualification Record Sheet (QRS), modified as shown
at Appendix 1, shall be completed for:
    a.  promotion to Cpl;

    b.  promotion to AL/Cpl or A/Cpl(P);

    c.  accelerated promotion to Cpl;

    d.  recommendations for accelerated promotion to MCpl or above; and

    e.  promotion from acting to substantive rank.

2.    In the circumstances described in paragraph 1, a QRS shall be
initiated by the unit by completing sections 1, 2 and 3 of the form. The
form shall be forwarded to the appropriate URS for completion of section 4,
and shall be distributed as prescribed in paragraph 5.

ACTION BY UNIT AND CO

3.    When a member has met all the prerequisites detailed in the
appropriate tables in Annex A for promotion to AUCpl, A/Cpl(P), Cpl, or
when the CO wishes to recommend a member for accelerated promotion in
accordance with Annex B, or when the CO is granting a substantive rank, the
unit shall complete sections 1, 2 and 3 of a QRS in the following manner:

    a.  Section 1. Self-explanatory.

    b.  Section 2. Under"Qualification Name", enter one of the following,
          as applicable: Promotion to Cpl, Promotion to A/Cpl(P), Promotion
          to AL/Cpl, Accelerated Promotion or Promotion to substantive rank
          of Cpl, MCpl, WO or MWO.

    c.  Section 2. "Prerequisites". In column 1, enter the prerequisites
          or statements listed below; in column 2, indicate "yes" for each
          prerequisite achieved; and in column 3, enter the date that the
          prerequisite was obtained or met.

          (1)  QL (if applicable). The date on which the member became
              qualified in accordance with Annex D normally will have been
              reported previously in accordance with A-PM-245-001/FP-001,
              Chapter 6.

          (2)  Met Minimum Time Prerequisite (if applicable). The date on
              which the member met the time prerequisites for the rank in
              accordance with Annex A.

          (3)  Meets Medical Standard. Member meets standard prescribed in
              A-MD-1 54-000/FP-000. However, in cases where the standard
              has not been met, enter the member's current medical profile
              in column 2.

          (4)  Available. Member is available for unrestricted posting
              respecting normal employment in the MOC.

          (5)  Suitable. Member has a recent history of satisfactory
              conduct. (Not applicable to promotions under the terms of
              Annex F paragraphs 6 and 8.)

          (6)  Recommended by CO. Member has, in all respects, demonstrated
              the necessary potential for the new rank.

          (7)  The final statement in this section should be one of the
              following as applicable--

              Promotion to Cpl approved effective (date);

              Promotion to AUCpl approved effective (date);

              Promotion to A/Cpl(P) approved effective (date);

              Accelerated promotion to (rank) recommended; or

              Promotion to substantive (rank) approved effective (date).

    d.  Section 3. This section shall be signed by the CO when the six
          prerequisites in subparagraph c have been met.

    e.  The unit shall forward the QRS to the appropriate URS.

ACTION BY URS

4.    When the QRS is received from a unit, Section 4 shall be completed by
the URS in the following manner:

    a.  In column 1, enter the two items listed in subparagraphs(1) and
          (2) below; in column 2, indicate "yes" if URS records confirm the
          dates shown for those two in Section 2; and in column 3, enter
          the date the prerequisite was met.

          (1)  Met Time Prerequisite. (Certifies that date listed for
              prerequisite (2) in Section 2 is correct.)

          (2)  Meets Medical Standard.

          (3)  Determine seniority date on re-promotion, if applicable.

    b.  In cases of promotion to AUCpl, A/Cpl(P), Cpl and to substantive
          rank, the URS shall take UPDT action in accordance with
          A-PM-245-001 /FP-001 .

DISTRIBUTION

5.    The complete QRS shall be distributed by the URS:

    a.  in the case of promotion to Cpl, AUCpl, A/Cpl(P) or substantive
          rank--

          (1)  Copy 1-- to unit, UER docket,

          (2)  Copy 2-- to NDHQ/DPCOR, and

          (3)  Copy 3 -- to URS, Unit Personnel Record; and

    b.  for accelerated promotion--

          (1)  Copy 1-- for unit retention, and

          (2)  Copies 2 and 3-- to appropriate unit for inclusion with
              documentation to be forwarded to NDHQ/DGPCOR.

Note -- The distribution of Copy 2 to the member, as indicated on the QRS,
is not applicable when the form is used for documentation under this CFAO.
However, the member may review the unit copy prior to its filing at the
unit.

Issued 1991-05-10


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANNEX G, APPENDIX 1 -- UER QUALIFICATION RECORD SHEET

This image is in the process of being rescannedClick Image To Get Expanded View

Issued 1991-05-10

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANNEX H -- CONTINUOUS MERIT LIST (CML)BACKGROUND
1.    The CML is a procedure to facilitate the CM's ability to forecast
promotions into the ranks of WO, MWO, and CWO which will improve the
management of CF personnel at these rank levels. It is based on the
establishment of a protected window, i.e., that point on a merit list above
which members are protected for promotion into the following year.
SIZE
2.    The protected windows will be established at 70 per cent of the
maximum annual promotion forecast contained in the Long Range Planning
Model (LRPM) over a five-year period for each rank level (WO, MWO, CWO) in
MOCs where the promotion flow is greater than one. The size of the window
may be adjusted, as necessary, by DGPCOR.
ELIGIBILITY
3.    To be eligible for entry into the protected window, a member must meet
and maintain the prerequisites for promotion.
REMOVAL FROM THE WINDOW
4.    Once placed within the window, a member can be removed only by:
    a.  promotion;

    b.  release;

    c.  CMRB;

    d.  CRB; or

    e.  change of circumstances report initiated by the member's CO.

5.    A member ineligible for entry or who is in the window and whose
circumstances change, will be dealt with by normal staff action by the unit
and the case will be sent to NDHQ/DPCAOR for decision. DPCAOR will make one
of the following decisions:

    a.  the member is to remain in the window;

    b.  the member is to be removed from the window and protected for the
          period of the current merit list (31 Dec) for the entry into the
          window in competition with the member's peers, should the member
          become eligible again (ie; C&P);

    c.  the member is to be removed from the window and protected until
          the case is resolved in accordance with current policy (ie,
          temporary medical); or

    d.  the member is removed from the window and is no longer eligible
          for entry into the window during the period of the current merit
          list.

NOTIFICATION

6.    As members in the window are promoted, they will be replaced in
sequence by qualified members below the protected window. Notification of
entry into the window will be by message from NDHQ/DPCAOR2. During the
active posting season (APS), due to the large number of promotions, members
may enter the window and be promoted without being informed of the window
entry.

Issued 1991-05-10


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ANNEX J -- NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBER'S MERIT BOARDSGENERAL
1.    The promotion system in the CF is based on the merit principle, as
determined by performance and potential. Merit boards are convened and
administered annually by NDHQ/DGPCOR.
OBJECTIVES
2.    The task of the merit board is to compile a merit list for each rank
and MOC from which personnel will be selected during the ensuing calendar
year for either promotion or selective re-engagement or both. There may be
more than one merit list for selected MOCs, or for those MOCs that include
more than one speciality.
COMPOSITION
3.    The composition of merit boards, subject to DGPCOR approval, is as
follows:
    a.  Merit boards considering only Cpls and MCpls are composed of--

          (1)  chairman-- Maj; and

          (2)  members-- Capt, and 2 NCMs of either CWO or MWO rank.

    b.  Merit boards considering all ranks, or Sgt and above in the case
          of split boards, are composed of--

          (1)  chairman-- LCol; and

          (2)  members-- Maj, Capt, and CWO (MWO if not available).

    c.  Regimental promotion boards are convened annually for MOCs-- 01 1,
          021 and 022, 031, 041 and 042, and are composed of--

          (1)  chairman-- BGen, Col, or LCol; and

          (2)  members-- LCol, Maj, Capt, and CWOs (MWO if necessary) from
              applicable field units.

4.    Board members will be selected from units, commands and NDHQ to ensure
that each board has the necessary technical expertise, element
representation, and official language representation. Except in certain
circumstances members will not be allowed to serve two consecutive years.

Issued 1991-05-10

Now?

WASN'T THAT EASY?
 
MedTech said:
Oy! HEY HEY HEY! I'm LESS then LAZY there kincanucks :p that hurt my feelings greatly!  :'(

Of course not all OCDTs are lazy.  How is that princess? ;D
 
ArtyNewbie said:
lazy OCDT's eh hows this 10 years in the CBI's change near daily and the ones regarding pay are almost completely written in NDHQese, so forgive me for asking the SME for advice (by the way the last tp cdr/divo I asked for advice on pay matters cost me nearly $2600 because he didn't know and instead of sending me the way of the pay office winged it) but then again I always thought that was a sign of leadership asking the sr NCO's for adivce

Learn how to make coffee and photocopies and talk less and read more.
 
Roy Harding said:
You're right about the changing regs.

When I was a new Clk, all our pubs were printed - an amendment list came out every two weeks (as I recall - timing may have been different, but it was on a regular schedule), there was a brief synopsis sheet on the front, which was passed around, and everybody knew what had been amended.  The junior clerk physically entered the amendments into the book.  I worked for two Chief Clerks who (no kidding) had the majority of the CFAOs and QR&Os MEMORIZED.  When an amendment came out, they knew what had changed, and read those amendments.  Even for those of us with less prodigious memories, it was possible to "know" the answer without looking it up, if it was an area with which you were familiar.

When the current electronic system came in, it was no longer possible to do this (even I had a LOT of the CFAOs memorized).  You NEVER knew when there had been an amendment - this meant that a Clk had to PHYSICALLY LOOK UP THE ANSWER, every time there was a question - you THOUGHT you knew, but you could never be sure. 

Wow.....an enlightening moment. I'm guilty of having thought (quite often in some units  ::) ), that clerks "used to be so switched on." Where my default was to blame the generation/training system/Vitamin D deficiency/etc.....it hadn't occurred to me to consider the means of promulgation. I remember, as a Duty NCO in one unit, a recurring task was to ink-amend CFAOs (especially if you had neat handwriting). And I did draw Duty on a semi-regular basis  :-[

How about that.....despite having spent the day in NDHQ, I just now learned something  ;)
 
"clerks used to be switched on"???.....

Naw - they didn't have an on/off switch....
 
Journeyman said:
... I remember, as a Duty NCO in one unit, a recurring task was to ink-amend CFAOs (especially if you had neat handwriting). And I did draw Duty on a semi-regular basis  :-[
...

So - I take it that you have neat handwriting, and that's why you drew so many duties??

As a matter of fact, it was my MESSY handwriting that got me hooked into the trade of Adm Clk.  It's a long story, which I may have told elsewhere here.


Roy
 
Wookilar said:
As semiskilled, you will get advanced standing as a Pte after BMQ (which means higher pay). If your trade qualifications are sufficient, you may only do partial QL3 (maybe even partial QL5) to complete that level of training. In most tech trades, you need QL5 to qualify for Cpl.

The only "instant" promotions to Cpl I have ever seen after Basic where individuals that were previously trades qualified, released and then re-enrolled.

Wook

I entered as semi skilled Direct entry.  I came in as a Cpl upon succesfull completion of my BMQ.  I received my promotion on my grad parade at BMQ.  I was never in the reg or reserves before.  I just happen to have a #$%^ load of education to come in as a Cpl.  In the tech trades (I am an ATIS tech)  you come in QL3 by- pass if you come in DE.  However not QL5.  No you don't need your QL5 to be promoted to Cpl.  The LCIS techs don't even have a course yet (they are still working on that in Kingston, should be soon they have it up and running) and ATIS techs have a OJT (On the Job Training) package.  I have been in for 1.5 years and have just finished my OJT pkg and should be getting my spec pay shortly.  You only need the QL5 for spec not for your Cpl's.  Hope this clarifies. 

P
 
LittlePammy said:
I have been in for 1.5 years and have just finished my OJT pkg

1.5 years to do your Journeyman package???

I take it you had a hard time getting signatures for the airfield stuff, right?
 
LittlePammy said:
  You only need the QL5 for spec not for your Cpl's. 

If i were you i would go re-check your facts.

As per http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/2006NCMRegFPay_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28  you CANNOT be in receipt of pay in the specialist 1 or 2 trade groups as a private, regardless of QL.  You must be a CPL. If you come is as a CPL and are not QL5A qualified, your MOSID is anotated "junior" and will not be in receipt of pay in the spec 1 or 2 trade groups until so qualified.
 
CDN Aviator said:
If i were you i would go re-check your facts.

As per http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/2006NCMRegFPay_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28  you CANNOT be in receipt of pay in the specialist 1 or 2 trade groups as a private, regardless of QL.  You must be a CPL. If you come is as a CPL and are not QL5A qualified, your MOSID is anotated "junior" and will not be in receipt of pay in the spec 1 or 2 trade groups until so qualified.

That's what she said.  QL5 is a prerequisite for spec pay, not for the rank of Cpl.  She stated that she's almost finished her OJT package, which will give her QL5 and spec pay to go with the two hooks she already has.
 
284_226 said:
That's what she said.  QL5 is a prerequisite for spec pay, not for the rank of Cpl.  She stated that she's almost finished her OJT package, which will give her QL5 and spec pay to go with the two hooks she already has.

Gotcha......was reading english in french again  :-\

 
CDN Aviator said:
Gotcha......was reading english in french again  :-\

No prob...wife does it all the time, but she can blame it on both pregnancy and being bilingual.  :)
 
284_226 said:
That's what she said.  QL5 is a prerequisite for spec pay, not for the rank of Cpl.  She stated that she's almost finished her OJT package, which will give her QL5 and spec pay to go with the two hooks she already has.
QL5 is also a requirement for the Corporal rank until that goal is reached (or interim qual for trades without) the corporal rank is either Cpl(P) Provisional or A/L see CFAO 49-4 annex A Table 1 and annex B para 7,  http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-04_e.asp
 
CDN Aviator said:
If i were you i would go re-check your facts.

As per http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/dppd/pay/engraph/2006NCMRegFPay_e.asp?sidesection=3&sidecat=28  you CANNOT be in receipt of pay in the specialist 1 or 2 trade groups as a private, regardless of QL.  You must be a CPL. If you come is as a CPL and are not QL5A qualified, your MOSID is anotated "junior" and will not be in receipt of pay in the spec 1 or 2 trade groups until so qualified.

That is exactly what I was trying to say.  Someone had stated that you needed your QL 5 before you could get your Cpl's.  I was saying no that you don't need it for your Cpl's, you need your QL5 (as a Cpl) for your spec.  I don't recall ever saying for a Pte.  I am not a Pte. 
 
284_226 said:
1.5 years to do your Journeyman package???

I take it you had a hard time getting signatures for the airfield stuff, right?

No, had a hard time getting my 5's started.  Long story to do with some higher ups not agreeing with DE's.  It finally took a pissed off Career Manager to make a phone call to get my 5's started.  Only took a few weeks to get it all signed off.
 
ArtyNewbie said:
QL5 is also a requirement for the Corporal rank until that goal is reached (or interim qual for trades without) the corporal rank is either Cpl(P) Provisional or A/L see CFAO 49-4 annex A Table 1 and annex B para 7,  http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-04_e.asp

Which, for the ATIS and LCIS trades she was referring to, is the case - personnel who join the trades as skilled or semi-skilled are enrolled as Cpls (albeit provisional) until completion of their OJT/Journeyman package.

Worded another way, I guess you could say that QL5 is a prerequisite for the rank of substantive Cpl.
 
LittlePammy said:
No, had a hard time getting my 5's started.  Long story to do with some higher ups not agreeing with DE's.  It finally took a pissed off Career Manager to make a phone call to get my 5's started.  Only took a few weeks to get it all signed off.

Wow, that's a lot of change you missed out on while they were playing silly games.  Consider grieving it?

It's not like you're the first skilled or semi-skilled entrant we've ever had, so they should've had their ducks in a row on the rules you'd fall under.
 
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