Pay: Statements, Backpay, Benefits, Deductions (Taxes, T4), Deployed ect... [MERGED]

[Lumber]

And that is a fundamental problem.  Capt should be competitive (perhaps less specialists such as doctors, dentists, lawyers and chaplains).  The pay scales for Lt are more than adequate for junior personnel; there is no valid reason for officers to get $75K+ per year with only four years of experience.

I tend to agree with you.

So would you recommend decreasing the pay of Capt/Lt(N)s or decreasing the rank requirement for jobs normally held by those ranks?

I can't even guess for how long the promotion to Lt(N) was based an examination board of some form of another (at least in Commonwealth navies), a practice which we continue to this day.

 

[blacktriangle]

The 75K/year doesn't bother me - but the 10th incentive at nearly 100k/year strikes me as perhaps a bit excessive. I'm thinking many of these people won't be promoted again by that point? Am I way off?

For argument's sake though, I'd say we should do the same thing for the rank of Cpl. We've got our fair share of Cpls that can't even function at the level expected of new Ptes - hardly worthy of "Journeyman" status.

 

[Loachman]

I am sure that Journeyman will amble along at some point to comment upon the worthiness of his status.

 

[BinRat55]

I am sure that Journeyman will amble along at some point to comment upon the worthiness of his status.

... I just got that...  :facepalm:

 

[PuckChaser]

... I just got that...  :facepalm:

Better late than never.

 

[TCM621]

The 75K/year doesn't bother me - but the 10th incentive at nearly 100k/year strikes me as perhaps a bit excessive. I'm thinking many of these people won't be promoted again by that point? Am I way off?

For argument's sake though, I'd say we should do the same thing for the rank of Cpl. We've got our fair share of Cpls that can't even function at the level expected of new Ptes - hardly worthy of "Journeyman" status.

My biggest problem with that name is that it suggests that career captains are not only OK but desirable. While this is no doubt true for many reasons, it has the problem of allowing people who are incapable of being successful outside of  basic course to lead people for decades.  It even rewards them for it.

A career corporal who is a bag of shit,  throw him in the canteen or the library where he can't hurt anyone. If he is happy with never getting a raise for the next 16 years, fine. Most won't want to stay in such a situation and the problem will solve itself.

Career Captains that are bags of shit , on the other hand, must be placed in leadership positions (for the most part) or other positions which will impact the lives of others. He will be in a position of some importance (even if only a little) and get a nice little raise every year until he damn close to finishing his contract. This problem is much less likely to solve itself.

Unfortunately,  I don't have an answer to that problem except take away all their incentives and we all know own that will never happen. I can even understand why they promote captains the way they do. When your LTs are coming up to the end of their basic contract, and they can't get on their next level course due to shortages and budget constraints, you want to give them some incentive to stay.  It is basically the same reason they removed the QL5 as a prerequisite to promotion to Corporal and started promoting everyone acting/lacking.

 

[Loachman]

My biggest problem with that name is that it suggests that career captains are not only OK but desirable. While this is no doubt true for many reasons, it has the problem of allowing people who are incapable of being successful outside of  basic course to lead people for decades.  It even rewards them for it.

There'd be an awful lot of aircraft sitting uselessly on the ground without all of us undesireables.

 

[Steve_D]

And not all Captains (or Cpls) who are content in their position are bags of crap. I know of a couple of both Capts and Cpls who are very good at their job (and happy in it), but may not be good at the next rank. Performance in current rank and potential in next rank are two different things. That is why it is separated on the PER.  I am not saying that we do not have some bags of crap, just that labeling them all is unprofessional.

 

[CountDC]

Absolutely but if the Capt was more competitive like MCpl/Sgt instead of rubber stamped like Cpls then some of the bags of crap would be filtered out at the Lt level and the rank of Capt would have more meaning.  Time in and courses completed should not make for an automatic promotion but I have only seen the reserves refuse to do so based on the members poor performance.

 

[Lumber]

Absolutely but if the Capt was more competitive like MCpl/Sgt instead of rubber stamped like Cpls then some of the bags of crap would be filtered out at the Lt level and the rank of Capt would have more meaning.  Time in and courses completed should not make for an automatic promotion but I have only seen the reserves refuse to do so based on the members poor performance.

Just because it is not merit based, with PERs and a selection board, does not mean a promotion to Lt(N)/Capt is a "rubber stamp". Just go talk to any MARS officers who's had to earn the trust of their Captain to receive their BWK, and then spend the weeks studying for an ultimately challenging their NOPQ board. I assure you that sitting in front of a half dozen senior officers and being grilled for an hour and a half is not being "rubber stamped".

 

[Loachman]

I am not saying that we do not have some bags of crap.

And not all at the Captain/Corporal levels.

 

[TCM621]

There'd be an awful lot of aircraft sitting uselessly on the ground without all of us undesireables.

As I said,  there is an argument for career captains but you could get rid if them and replace them as well. Specialists like Pilot,  Doctors and Lawyers have their own pay scale and they might be the ones that keep the ten incentives.

When it comes to most officer trades (just like most NCM trades) we could fire every crap pump,  every hates his job, and every doesn't give a crap anymore and replace them pretty easily if we wanted to. It would mean higher training costs but you would have to ask what is the cost of having a person who is a drain on the organization?

I don't want to lump all career captains in with the bad, most of them work hard and do their jobs. But I have dealt with enough that shouldn't be employed by the CF let alone in a position of authority (which being an officer makes you by default) that it is something that exists and should be talked about.

 

[Steve_D]

Just because it is not merit based, with PERs and a selection board, does not mean a promotion to Lt(N)/Capt is a "rubber stamp". Just go talk to any MARS officers who's had to earn the trust of their Captain to receive their BWK, and then spend the weeks studying for an ultimately challenging their NOPQ board. I assure you that sitting in front of a half dozen senior officers and being grilled for an hour and a half is not being "rubber stamped".

Thanks for the plug. You are so correct. Earning the trust of the Captain and the NOPQ board was certainly no cake walk.

 

[NorthernOtter]

Couple of questions regarding Payscales for DEO BMOQ. Specifically for MARS, if that changes anything.

1. In regards to payscale, would you be able to outline pay while at Basic, and any costs/fees for room and board?
2. For Christmas Break, will travel expenses be covered to return home?
3. Finally, I have heard that upon completion of Basic, there is usually a "backpay" amount. To my understanding, if I was receiving Officer Cadet pay at Basic, upon completion I would receive backpay in the amount of the difference from Officer Cadet payscale to Sub Lieutenant pay. Is this correct?

 

[NorthernOtter]

After doing some research (something I should have done in the first place), I was able to find information on this subject, which I hope to have understood correctly. In the interest of helping those with similar questions, I will post my findings below.

1. DEO Payscale appears to begin as 2nd Lt, according to this post: http://army.ca/forums/threads/116852/post-1336866.html#msg1336866

As mentioned in the above thread, pay can vary based on Deductions, PLD,  and Provincial Taxes. Also, Rations and Quarters will vary depending on if the DEO member is Married/Common-law or not.

Around 1500 as a 2lt (twice a month) in 2011/12.  There are many variables involved however that getting an answer to your question may not be close to what you receive, such as:

Entry plan as a DEO (previous service? are you going in as a substantive 2LT or LT? etc)
Are you married (or common law) and maintaining a residence elsewhere besides St.Jean? (this will get factored into PLD)
And a few other misc considerations (Land Duty Allowance, etc).

2. I have yet to get official confirmation, but it appears that an Allowance is supplied to return to your Next of Kin for the Holiday Break. That being said, be sure to list the proper person as your Next of Kin.

3. Based on my findings in 1., it appears that this is incorrect as DEO BMOQ members recieve 2nd Lt. pay from Day 1. This needs confirmation however.

Hopefully this is all factual and helpful. With the age of some posts and recent changes in policy, the information available was sometimes difficult to discern.

 

[NorthernOtter]

Hello all,

I've been researching here and there, using the Search function to try to answer my question: What Payscale do DEO members fall under while at BMOQ?

The Pay Rates page from CAF shows that DEO members fall under Second Lieutenant, Pay Level C.
Second Lieutenant C 3839 4163 4489 4822 5152 5484 5813

Indeed, my recent Offer Letter stated that I would receive Pay at $4163.00. This is of course before Deductions and Taxes, and I understand that Net Income rates change based on Allowances and circumstances.

a. you will be enrolled into the Regular Force as a/an Maritime Surface and Sub-Surface in the Navy under the Direct Entry Officer - Generic entry plan;

b. you will be enrolled at the rank of Naval Cadet;

c. your pay level will be $4,163.00, as set out in Chapter 204 of the Compensation and Benefit Instructions, Pay of Officers and Non-Commissioned Members;

However, in my searching, I have seen accounts of DEO members being paid as Officer Cadets, then receiving a "Back Pay" to Second Lieutenant upon completion of BMOQ. It appears that this is due to a change in policy over the years.

So, I thought I'd ask for Recruiters and/or recent DEO BMOQ graduates to settle this once and for all. What should fresh DEO applicants expect to receive during their time at BMOQ?

Thanks for your time.

 

[RussTheMann]

bump, interested in this myself

 

[RussTheMann]

question: any idea how the pay increment part works? especially while in BMOQ?

 

[George Wallace]

c. your pay level will be $4,163.00, as set out in Chapter 204 of the Compensation and Benefit Instructions, Pay of Officers and Non-Commissioned Members;[/i]

Why ask a question when you have been given the answer in "Black and White" in your offer as to what you will be paid? 

 

[George Wallace]

This topic has been moved to Recruiting.

http://Army.ca/forums/threads/123387.0