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Are you talking about rations and not quarters? Because if so, they are correct. However, you shouldn't be paying for quarters if you have a mortgage. I haven't heard of any changes, but then, I could be wrong.... :dunno:
Of course, looking at the CFLRS Joining Instructions, it says if you are single, you must pay both R&Q. No mention of being a homeowner.
Of course, looking at the CFLRS Joining Instructions, it says if you are single, you must pay both R&Q. No mention of being a homeowner.
Eye In The Sky
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CFLRS doesn't make up the rules for benefits. However, this doesn't surpise me.
On what basis was it denied?
On what basis was it denied?
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I've heard in some places R & Q are locked together, but I've also heard you can apply to have yours de linked for situations such as this.
Also from what I understand the Q part of the linked cost ends up being very little of the total cost.
I would suggest talking to SISIP Financial Manager to see what help you can get.
Also from what I understand the Q part of the linked cost ends up being very little of the total cost.
I would suggest talking to SISIP Financial Manager to see what help you can get.
Eye In The Sky
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So because it is only $99/month, mbrs at CFLRS should just suck it up and go to SISIP?
:facepalm:
:facepalm:
Eye In The Sky
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Well, after reviewing the CBI, it appears that the denial of free quarters was in accordance with the CBIs, as you aren't entitled to move at public expense yet IAW current CFIRP policy. Additionally, as you say you are single I will assume you don't have a dependant residing in your principle residence on a full time basis. 2 strikes.
I am not an admin SME, but here is what CBI Ch 208- Relocation Benefits [CBI 208.997(3)] says; applic parts in yellow.
CBI 208.997 – SEPARATION EXPENSE
208.997(1) (Purpose) The purpose of Separation Expense (SE) is to reimburse Canadian Forces members for some additional living expenses resulting from the short-term separation from their dependants and household goods and effects ((D)HG&E) as a result of relocation within Canada for service reasons.
208.997(2) (Definitions) The following definitions apply in this instruction:
“commercial accommodation” means an accommodation that:
(a) is at a hotel, motel, tourist home, guest cottage or similar commercial property;
(b) is publicly available at a published rate; and
(c) contains no more than one bedroom.
“dependant” means:
(a) a member’s spouse or common-law partner;
(b) a member’s, their spouse’s, or their common-law partner’s child — including a stepchild, legal ward, adopted child or child adopted under a Canadian aboriginal custom adoption practice — who is dependent on the member because the child is:
(i) under 18 years of age;
(ii) mentally or physically disabled; or
(iii) under 25 years of age and in fulltime attendance at a school or other education institution that provides training or instruction of an educational, professional, vocational or technical nature; or
(c) a member’s, their spouse’s, or their common-law partner’s relative — a parent, grandparent, brother, sister, uncle, aunt,
niece, nephew or grandchild — who is dependent on the member because the relative is mentally or physically disabled.
“fair market value” means the highest rent — in an open and unrestricted market — of accommodation or furniture agreed to by two
persons who are knowledgeable, informed, prudent and acting independently of each other.
“family housing” has the same meaning as in Charges for Family Housing Regulations (Volume IV of the QR&O, Appendix 4.1
(Changes for Family Housing Regulations)).
“furniture rental” means furniture rented at fair market value from a furniture rental company, but does not include furniture rented with a right to own.
“non-commercial accommodation” means an apartment, condominium or similar residential property that:
(a) the member rents at fair market value from another person; and
(b) contains no more than one bedroom, bathroom, living room and kitchen.
“place of duty” has the same meaning as in paragraph (3) of CBI 208.80 (Application and Definitions)
which states:
“place of duty” means the place at which an officer or non-commissioned member usually performs their normal military duties and includes any place in the surrounding geographical area that is determined to be part thereof by the Chief of the Defence Staff or such other officer as the Chief of the Defence Staff may designate.
“principal residence” means a residential property in Canada that:
(a) is located:
(i) at the place to which the member’s HG&E were last moved at public expense;
(ii) at the place of the member’s HG&E on the date the member enrolled in the Regular Force unless the member has
subsequently moved at public expense
(iv) at any other place of duty, selected place of residence or designated alternative location, to which the member was authorized to move their HG&E at public expense;
(b) is owned or rented by a member; and
(c) but for service reasons, would have been occupied by the member on a full-time basis.
“private accommodation” means an accommodation rented by a member at fair market value and located within a larger
residential property.
“quarters” means an accommodation — without cooking facilities — available to a member at public expense, and includes “government and institutional accommodation” as defined in the National Joint Council Travel Directive, as
amended from time to time.
“Separation Expense” or “SE” means the reimbursement of expenses and payment of allowances identified in this instruction.
“spouse” in relation to a member, does not include a spouse who is living separate and apart, within the meaning of the Divorce Act,
from the member.
208.997(3) (Entitlement) Subject to paragraphs (5) and (6), a member of the Regular Force — or of the Reserve Force who is on Class “C” Reserve Service — is entitled to SE if all of the following conditions are satisfied:
(a) the member’s immediate former place of duty is in Canada;
(b) the member has a principal residence in Canada;
(c) the member is posted to or on that Class “C” Reserve Service at a new place of duty in Canada;
(d) the member is entitled to a move of (D)HG&E at public expense to the new place of duty;
(e) the move of the member’s (D)HG&E at public expense to the new place of duty is, for service reasons, prohibited or restricted, in accordance with orders or instructions issued by the Chief of the Defence Staff;
(f) the member does not move their (D)HG&E to the new place of duty;
(g) the member occupies an accommodation at a new place of duty; and
(h)a dependant occupies the principal residence on a full-time basis.
CFIRP Policy On Entitlement/Eligibility For CFIRP moves at public expense located here
1.1.03 Eligibility application
The following are entitled to relocation benefits under the CFIRP:
•Regular Force members who are posted and Reserve Force members who accept a period of Class "B" or "C" service employment, as per Chapter 13, who are authorized to move their (D) HG&E from one place of duty to another only when the new residence is at least 40 kilometres closer to the new place of duty than the current residence.
(Limitation) CF members who enrol or re-enrol, or transfer from the Reserve Force to the Regular Force, and have not successfully completed basic military occupation or trade training or its equivalent for the occupation or trade for which they enroll, re-enroll or transfer are not entitled to relocation benefits under the CFIRP, unless they:
•have graduated from a Canadian miitary college during their current period of Regular Force service;
•have graduated from a civilian university for which their education was paid by the Canadian Forces during their current period of Regular Force service;
•are a dental, medical or legal office who has successfully completed basic officer training; or
•are a Chaplain recruit, who by virtue of their ecclesiastical mandate received by their respective religious authority, is authorized to exercise pasatoral care.
(TB amended 16 September 2014)
Sorry, I didn't realize or remember that this had changed when the policy changes occurred back in 2012. They've also stopped using the former "Career Status" definition for CFIRP benefits as well. I jumped the gun at CFLRS staff - I was staff there in a former life and had to deal with some BS they pulled WRT SE and benefits for my recruits and some OCdts who were getting fucked around.
Regardless, I was incorrect, the CBI stands.
I am not an admin SME, but here is what CBI Ch 208- Relocation Benefits [CBI 208.997(3)] says; applic parts in yellow.
CBI 208.997 – SEPARATION EXPENSE
208.997(1) (Purpose) The purpose of Separation Expense (SE) is to reimburse Canadian Forces members for some additional living expenses resulting from the short-term separation from their dependants and household goods and effects ((D)HG&E) as a result of relocation within Canada for service reasons.
208.997(2) (Definitions) The following definitions apply in this instruction:
“commercial accommodation” means an accommodation that:
(a) is at a hotel, motel, tourist home, guest cottage or similar commercial property;
(b) is publicly available at a published rate; and
(c) contains no more than one bedroom.
“dependant” means:
(a) a member’s spouse or common-law partner;
(b) a member’s, their spouse’s, or their common-law partner’s child — including a stepchild, legal ward, adopted child or child adopted under a Canadian aboriginal custom adoption practice — who is dependent on the member because the child is:
(i) under 18 years of age;
(ii) mentally or physically disabled; or
(iii) under 25 years of age and in fulltime attendance at a school or other education institution that provides training or instruction of an educational, professional, vocational or technical nature; or
(c) a member’s, their spouse’s, or their common-law partner’s relative — a parent, grandparent, brother, sister, uncle, aunt,
niece, nephew or grandchild — who is dependent on the member because the relative is mentally or physically disabled.
“fair market value” means the highest rent — in an open and unrestricted market — of accommodation or furniture agreed to by two
persons who are knowledgeable, informed, prudent and acting independently of each other.
“family housing” has the same meaning as in Charges for Family Housing Regulations (Volume IV of the QR&O, Appendix 4.1
(Changes for Family Housing Regulations)).
“furniture rental” means furniture rented at fair market value from a furniture rental company, but does not include furniture rented with a right to own.
“non-commercial accommodation” means an apartment, condominium or similar residential property that:
(a) the member rents at fair market value from another person; and
(b) contains no more than one bedroom, bathroom, living room and kitchen.
“place of duty” has the same meaning as in paragraph (3) of CBI 208.80 (Application and Definitions)
which states:
“place of duty” means the place at which an officer or non-commissioned member usually performs their normal military duties and includes any place in the surrounding geographical area that is determined to be part thereof by the Chief of the Defence Staff or such other officer as the Chief of the Defence Staff may designate.
“principal residence” means a residential property in Canada that:
(a) is located:
(i) at the place to which the member’s HG&E were last moved at public expense;
(ii) at the place of the member’s HG&E on the date the member enrolled in the Regular Force unless the member has
subsequently moved at public expense
(iv) at any other place of duty, selected place of residence or designated alternative location, to which the member was authorized to move their HG&E at public expense;
(b) is owned or rented by a member; and
(c) but for service reasons, would have been occupied by the member on a full-time basis.
“private accommodation” means an accommodation rented by a member at fair market value and located within a larger
residential property.
“quarters” means an accommodation — without cooking facilities — available to a member at public expense, and includes “government and institutional accommodation” as defined in the National Joint Council Travel Directive, as
amended from time to time.
“Separation Expense” or “SE” means the reimbursement of expenses and payment of allowances identified in this instruction.
“spouse” in relation to a member, does not include a spouse who is living separate and apart, within the meaning of the Divorce Act,
from the member.
208.997(3) (Entitlement) Subject to paragraphs (5) and (6), a member of the Regular Force — or of the Reserve Force who is on Class “C” Reserve Service — is entitled to SE if all of the following conditions are satisfied:
(a) the member’s immediate former place of duty is in Canada;
(b) the member has a principal residence in Canada;
(c) the member is posted to or on that Class “C” Reserve Service at a new place of duty in Canada;
(d) the member is entitled to a move of (D)HG&E at public expense to the new place of duty;
(e) the move of the member’s (D)HG&E at public expense to the new place of duty is, for service reasons, prohibited or restricted, in accordance with orders or instructions issued by the Chief of the Defence Staff;
(f) the member does not move their (D)HG&E to the new place of duty;
(g) the member occupies an accommodation at a new place of duty; and
(h)a dependant occupies the principal residence on a full-time basis.
CFIRP Policy On Entitlement/Eligibility For CFIRP moves at public expense located here
1.1.03 Eligibility application
The following are entitled to relocation benefits under the CFIRP:
•Regular Force members who are posted and Reserve Force members who accept a period of Class "B" or "C" service employment, as per Chapter 13, who are authorized to move their (D) HG&E from one place of duty to another only when the new residence is at least 40 kilometres closer to the new place of duty than the current residence.
(Limitation) CF members who enrol or re-enrol, or transfer from the Reserve Force to the Regular Force, and have not successfully completed basic military occupation or trade training or its equivalent for the occupation or trade for which they enroll, re-enroll or transfer are not entitled to relocation benefits under the CFIRP, unless they:
•have graduated from a Canadian miitary college during their current period of Regular Force service;
•have graduated from a civilian university for which their education was paid by the Canadian Forces during their current period of Regular Force service;
•are a dental, medical or legal office who has successfully completed basic officer training; or
•are a Chaplain recruit, who by virtue of their ecclesiastical mandate received by their respective religious authority, is authorized to exercise pasatoral care.
(TB amended 16 September 2014)
Sorry, I didn't realize or remember that this had changed when the policy changes occurred back in 2012. They've also stopped using the former "Career Status" definition for CFIRP benefits as well. I jumped the gun at CFLRS staff - I was staff there in a former life and had to deal with some BS they pulled WRT SE and benefits for my recruits and some OCdts who were getting fucked around.
Regardless, I was incorrect, the CBI stands.
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Eye In The Sky said:
Not my intention. My point was that the financial manager at SISIP is more likely to have the contacts that can find out what his options are and know who to call to have a swift kick delivered to those refusing to provide them to him. Based on what he's said his staff and OR are unhelpful. I fail to see who else he may be able to speak to. If the amount he gets back on his paycheque is not enough to off set the Rations cost in his personal budget, he'll already be there for help.
The point of my bringing up the the difference in R&Q not being much, is that he's still not likely to see much relief due to change in policy.
Having recently been on IR/Unaccompanied I was in a much similar situation. I had not just a house, but a wife and kids to support as well. If I'd been forced to pay for rations I'd have been dipping into my RRSPs.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
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c_canuk said:
No worries...as you can see in my previous post, I was way out of my lane and into the pecker-brush WRT the current policy. :
Oh well...learn something every day they say...
Spring_bok
Member
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Does anyone know what defines a bedroom within current IR policy? I would expect that a second bedroom made into a study might be a stretch but an advertised I bedroom plus den might sound more reasonable. Are there any factors such as windows, closets or square footage that would distinguish a bedroom from a den? Is there a national guidance or is it a base to base thing? Any experiences or suggestions? My destination for IR is Kingston if that helps.
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Spring_bok said:
Generally a bedroom has a closet and a window. If it lacks either of those, I think then it's technically a den. From looking at rental properties, you can't call something a bedroom unless it has a proper egress window (ie designed that a person could escape from it in an emergency)
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RADOPSIGOPACISSOP said:
I'm not familiar with the Ontario Building Code. But, out of curiosity, I read this ( for what it is worth ):
"This may come as a surprise to many people, or a relief to those looking to add a bedroom in the basement, but contrary to the National Building Code and popular brief ( sic ), a bedroom in Ontario does not require an egress window in the actual bedroom! As long as there is an egress window or door to the exterior somewhere on the level, the requirements for egress have been met. However, there are still light and ventilation requirements for each bedroom that must be met, but that is another topic."
http://www.seacliffhomeinspections.com/egress.php
Spring_bok
Member
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Just wondering what those administering IR are using as a reference. I am looking at a one bedroom plus den. The den has French doors, no window or closet. I would use it for a work study area, not a bedroom.
PMedMoe said:
I'm talking about quarters.
When they denied my request they quoted what Eye In The Sky posted. Apparently there's nothing for single members without dependants due to budget cuts. I'm now in Borden and I wrote an e-mail to my recruiting center and they apologized for the wrong information that they gave [for the last few years at all recruits that went trought that recruiting center]...
Thanks again for your help!
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From my experience, if your lease calls it a one bedroom apartment, then you are okay. Unless thngs have changed, no one actually goes out to inspect your living quarters to check they fall within the regulations.
Hi there!
Hoping one of you fine people can help me with a couple of questions I have about IR. We're having a hard time selling our house and the kids are I are going to stay while hubby goes IR until it sells. We will then proceed onto the new posting together and purchase (maybe rent - we're going to Toronto) a new home.
I understand the rules about a one bedroom apartment, and that rent is the ONLY thing reimbursed, however I'm wondering what happens if hubby has to sign a lease to attain said accommodations. If we need the apartment for a shorter time than the lease specifies (I hope we will) will the CF cover the lease breaking penalties? Are we expected to find something month-to-month? I've seen a few questions about furnished vs. unfurnished accommodations, will we be allowed a small move of things to furnish an apartment, or do we have to get something furnished?
Thanks for any and all help you can give me!
IRSpouse :nod:
Hoping one of you fine people can help me with a couple of questions I have about IR. We're having a hard time selling our house and the kids are I are going to stay while hubby goes IR until it sells. We will then proceed onto the new posting together and purchase (maybe rent - we're going to Toronto) a new home.
I understand the rules about a one bedroom apartment, and that rent is the ONLY thing reimbursed, however I'm wondering what happens if hubby has to sign a lease to attain said accommodations. If we need the apartment for a shorter time than the lease specifies (I hope we will) will the CF cover the lease breaking penalties? Are we expected to find something month-to-month? I've seen a few questions about furnished vs. unfurnished accommodations, will we be allowed a small move of things to furnish an apartment, or do we have to get something furnished?
Thanks for any and all help you can give me!
IRSpouse :nod:
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