Premier Ford To Use "Notwithstanding" Against Education Staff- split fromFreedom Convoy Protests

[Eaglelord17]

Pull a Japan and have the kids clean up for a bit, likely would be a good learning experience for most of them anyways.

 

[Furniture]

Are you referring to the teachers, or the CUPE folks?

Janitors, etc don't have huge benefit packages.

The CUPE folks, they have coverage similar to what we get for medical/dental, as well as OT, and other benefits many other Canadians don't have.

https://www.cupe-ewbt.ca/Content/pdfs/CUPE EWBT benefits booklet.pdf

I'm not saying they're getting too much, I'm simply pointing out that many Canadians don't have anything, so are unlikely to have a whole lot of sympathy for people asking for a 11.7% annual pay increase.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Arbitration is just a facade for whipsawing. Point to whoever currently holds the flag for best package in Canada, and say "we want what they have". Passing legislation in anticipation of heading something off that people might do is common as dirt; not sure what the cries of "pre-emption" are supposed to mean.

Unusual for me to be in the position of seeing a win either way. Province contains wage growth, a win. Litigation guts the NWC, a win.

 

[brihard]

Arbitration is just a facade for whipsawing. Point to whoever currently holds the flag for best package in Canada, and say "we want what they have". Passing legislation in anticipation of heading something off that people might do is common as dirt; not sure what the cries of "pre-emption" are supposed to mean.

Unusual for me to be in the position of seeing a win either way. Province contains wage growth, a win. Litigation guts the NWC, a win.

Litigation will not gut the NWC. It’s part of the Constitution Act. CUPE would need a non-Charter based argument and would probably tackle, more narrowly, the imposition of a four year contract. Wielding s. 33 against the collective bargaining rights and the right to strike is hard to fight legally, and will be more of a political affair, I believe.

The federal government could override this law through Disallowance, but that’s a rare and politically risky power.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Are you referring to the teachers, or the CUPE folks?

Janitors, etc don't have huge benefit packages.

My ex has, and my Father had, better benefits then I ever did as a Correctional Officer....

 

[dapaterson]

Bill has passed third reading and is on its way to the LG for Royal Assent.

The Premier was not present in the Assembly for the vote.

 

[Remius]

Bill has passed third reading and is on its way to the LG for Royal Assent.

The Premier was not present in the Assembly for the vote.

At least show up and own this.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Rip a page out of the CAF book and have teachers do "secondary duties ".

They already do. All those extracurriculars they run/coach/direct.

Those are unpaid "secondary duties" they don't have to do.

 

[Halifax Tar]

How sympathetic will parents be when they have to miss work, and pay because government workers with huge benefit packages go on strike?

It's one thing to close schools, and demand better pay when times are good, and parents have more flexibility in their finances/work. Right now, we are at a point where most people don't have a whole lot of flexibility left in their finances, so thing may blow up int he faces of the PS unions pretty badly.

Also bear in mind, pretty much all of us here are reasonably well-paid government employees, so we don't necessarily see things the same way that the average Canadian does. We likely don't run in the circles that this action from the Ontario government is aimed at appealing to.

Schools aren't babysitting services. Their job is to educate and prepare the young for their professional lives.

We need to stop looking at them as babysitting services.

I will also say EAs and ECEs are highly underpaid and understaffed. I hope they get the remuneration they deserve.

*I should have included janitorial staff as well.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Pull a Japan and have the kids clean up for a bit, likely would be a good learning experience for most of them anyways.

I remember having to do that. Clean the chalk boards and brushes, and sweep and mop the classroom floors.

You're right it should be brought back.

 

[Furniture]

Schools aren't babysitting services. Their job is to educate and prepare the young for their professional lives.

We need to stop looking at them as babysitting services.

I will also say EAs and ECEs are highly underpaid and understaffed. I hope they get the remuneration they deserve.

*I should have included janitorial staff as well.

That's a fine and dandy idea, but the reality of a two-income home is people count on their kids being in school during the "normal" workday Monday to Friday.

I'm sure you expect your sailors to be at the office/warehouse getting kit to the ships, not sitting at home because the school staff are striking and the kids who are supposed to be in class learning require supervision. Sure, the single/childless people can pick up the slack for a few days, but even the government needs its people doing what they are paid to do to keep functioning.

 

[Halifax Tar]

That's a fine and dandy idea, but the reality of a two-income home is people count on their kids being in school during the "normal" workday Monday to Friday.

I'm sure you expect your sailors to be at the office/warehouse getting kit to the ships, not sitting at home because the school staff are striking and the kids who are supposed to be in class learning require supervision. Sure, the single/childless people can pick up the slack for a few days, but even the government needs its people doing what they are paid to do to keep functioning.

Every family makes choices. Conduct yourself accordingly.

But families shouldn't expect the schools and their staff to be to be some sort of free (tax funded) child care program. The schools job is to educate not rear the young of lackadaisical parents.

School staff are employees. Unionized employees. And they deserve their remuneration.

Families used to house grandparents and they would help raise the kids. Now we throw them in homes.

 

[QV]

Everyone does have choices. Including career choices. “Choices have consequences“ is something I’ve heard a lot in the last few years.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Clued-in people doing homeschooling, who prepare their children for university entrance, have deflated the idea that the amount of time kids spend in school is necessary for education. That it doubles up as de facto babysitting should not surprise.

 

[Furniture]

Every family makes choices. Conduct yourself accordingly.

But families shouldn't expect the schools and their staff to be to be some sort of free (tax funded) child care program. The schools job is to educate not rear the young of lackadaisical parents.

School staff are employees. Unionized employees. And they deserve their remuneration.

Families used to house grandparents and they would help raise the kids. Now we throw them in homes.

Really? Do you have any idea how out of touch that sounds? I get that you're deep into the school/education world by virtue of your wife, but what you said is essentially "let them eat cake".

Not everybody has the luxury of two well paid government jobs, with extreme flexibility when it comes to working from home. Are you honestly suggesting that families struggling to make ends meet with both parents working should just "conduct themselves accordingly", and magic the money to allow one parent to take time off work?

If that's the best teachers/education workers can come up with to support their cause, I suspect the government will do quite well legislating them back to work.

 

[brihard]

That's a fine and dandy idea, but the reality of a two-income home is people count on their kids being in school during the "normal" workday Monday to Friday.

I'm sure you expect your sailors to be at the office/warehouse getting kit to the ships, not sitting at home because the school staff are striking and the kids who are supposed to be in class learning require supervision. Sure, the single/childless people can pick up the slack for a few days, but even the government needs its people doing what they are paid to do to keep functioning.

Absolutely they do. Sounds like the service this provided is valuable. Maybe that should be reflected in the compensation of those essential to it working.

Let’s be real here. We’re talking people averaging under $40k a year. Even at large percentage increases, the dollar value in real terms is not startling. We’re willing to pay cops and firefighters over $100k, yet people who are apparently essential for the well being of kids and the economic opportunities of parents get less than half that? That ain’t right.

I don’t have kids. I don’t have a dog in this fight safe for I’m a relatively high income taxpayer who would shoulder some of the burden of this, and I’m ok with it. I can recognize when things ain’t right.

 

[Furniture]

Absolutely they do. Sounds like the service this provided is valuable. Maybe that should be reflected in the compensation of those essential to it working.

Let’s be real here. We’re talking people averaging under $40k a year. Even at large percentage increases, the dollar value in real terms is not startling. We’re willing to pay cops and firefighters over $100k, yet people who are apparently essential for the well being of kids and the economic opportunities of parents get less than half that? That ain’t right.

I don’t have kids. I don’t have a dog in this fight safe for I’m a relatively high income taxpayer who would shoulder some of the burden of this, and I’m ok with it. I can recognize when things ain’t right.

I have not argued that they are paid well enough, I'm simply pointing out that they are potentially facing an uphill battle. The economy is pretty crap right now, inflation is hurting everyone. Asking for a 12% pay raise, then shutting down schools is not likely to win friends... particularly when even CBC ran a story talking about how the government's offer of 2.5% was more generous than the average pay increase Canadians have seen (1.8%).

 

[brihard]

I have not argued that they are paid well enough, I'm simply pointing out that they are potentially facing an uphill battle. The economy is pretty crap right now, inflation is hurting everyone. Asking for a 12% pay raise, then shutting down schools is not likely to win friends... particularly when even CBC ran a story talking about how the government's offer of 2.5% was more generous than the average pay increase Canadians have seen (1.8%).

Of course they have an uphill fight. They’re literally looking at a strike tomorrow that’s been made illegal through abuse of the Notwithstanding Clause. But paying the rent and groceries is an uphill fight too.

They’re sitting well below the average a Canadian annual income of $47k or so. The 2.5% offer has to be seen in the context of this is one of the first big collective negotiations reaching impasse in a period of sudden high inflation, and that also they’ve only seen 8% increase in a decade, against 18% compounded inflation in that time. While it’s disappointing that CBC would throw them under the bus, I think a lot of us can still imagine trying to get by on $39k. Their “39k is not enough” campaign was well branded.

 

[dimsum]

Of course they have an uphill fight. They’re literally looking at a strike tomorrow that’s been made illegal through abuse of the Notwithstanding Clause. But paying the rent and groceries is an uphill fight too.

They’re sitting well below the average a Canadian annual income of $47k or so. The 2.5% offer has to be seen in the context of this is one of the first big collective negotiations reaching impasse in a period of sudden high inflation, and that also they’ve only seen 8% increase in a decade, against 18% compounded inflation in that time. While it’s disappointing that CBC would throw them under the bus, I think a lot of us can still imagine trying to get by on $39k. Their “39k is not enough” campaign was well branded.

Yeah, imagine being paid the equivalent of Pte, but no IPCs or automatic promotions.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Just an observation. Not a reentry
I used to make less than that with zero benefits and supported my family in the not to distant past. Know what I did?

I got a better job.