Québec Election: 7 Apr 14

[Journeyman]

...... should we not be talking about the kind of Canada we want to live in?

I'm already in the kind of Canada I want to live in -- and it includes Quebec.  As Monty Python pointed out, "I'm not quite dead yet."

So I'll leave you folks to it.

 

[Infanteer]

I'm already in the kind of Canada I want to live in -- and it includes Quebec.  As Monty Python pointed out, "I'm not quite dead yet."

So I'll leave you folks to it.

+1.

Too many Vandoos and Chaudieres and Royal Highlanders have spilt their blood for Canada to have the whole thing unravelled by a few small-minded folks on both the "We want to separate!" and "Good, go separate!" sides....

 

[Jungle]

I'm already in the kind of Canada I want to live in -- and it includes Quebec.  As Monty Python pointed out, "I'm not quite dead yet."

So I'll leave you folks to it.

+1.

Too many Vandoos and Chaudieres and Royal Highlanders have spilt their blood for Canada to have the whole thing unravelled by a few small-minded folks on both the "We want to separate!" and "Good, go separate!" sides....

+2

Exactly, I refuse to let it all go to shit !!

 

[TCBF]

+2

Exactly, I refuse to let it all go to crap !!

- Are you in a position to refuse? What are your options?

 

[Infanteer]

- Are you in a position to refuse? What are your options?

I'll be a guy who doesn't say "f**k, let them separate!"; that's as much as I can do.

 

[Jungle]

- Are you in a position to refuse? What are your options?

I'm in a position to vote. What's your plan ??

 

[TCBF]

I'm in a position to vote. What's your plan ??

Right now, same as yours.  ;D

And I like Canada in it's present geographic form, it just needs some tinkering to roll back a bit of the Marxist thing we have going on. Or Fascist thing, depending on one's point of view. I suppose, to be accurate, I should call it a 'statist' thing, and get everyone - right and left - all riled up.

 

[Remius]

For those that care, it seems that the PQ might be trying to change the channel by using the charter of values.  Bernard Drainville has been announcing that a vote for the Liberals is a vote against the charter (well duh).

At any rate it should be noted that, while popular with some segments of the population, it figures almost dead last in Quebecers political priorities.

I wonder if this is what they want to use to change the channel.  In my opinion it won't work.  Quebecers want a focus on health care and the economy.  With the Liberals now releasing a part of their economic platform it might be that the PQ doesn't feel it can win that issue so maybe they feel that by placing an issue they feel they can win on (even though it doesn't figure prominently among voters) they can change the conversation.

I really think that the PQ and Marois have completely misjudged everything from the begining, including launching this election.

 

[Jungle]

I really think that the PQ and Marois have completely misjudged everything from the begining, including launching this election.

I think you are correct; they will bring back the charter because it was their workhorse for the last few months, and they were having some success with it. However, after a number of conversations with people here, I think the support is directed more to exploring solutions to the "accommodations" then to the charter in it's present form. But the PQ want to push it regardless, hopefully it will bite them in the ass (a bit more).

 

[TCBF]

The phrase "Intellectual Inbreeding" comes to mind.

 

[Edward Campbell]

Interesting story, reproduced, without further comment, under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the National Post:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03/22/marois-hints-that-out-of-province-anglophones-may-sway-quebec-vote-through-fraud/

Marois hints that out of province anglophones may sway Quebec vote through fraud

Canadian Press

March 22, 2014

MONTREAL — Parti Quebecois Leader Pauline Marois says she’s concerned about reports of possible voter fraud involving anglophone and allophones from outside the province trying to register in the Quebec election.

Marois says the PQ has asked for more details on the issue from Quebec’s chief electoral officer.

Her comments follow a story on Saturday in Montreal’s Le Devoir newspaper.

The newspaper cites an electoral officer in a downtown Montreal riding who says many English-speakers and others whose first language is neither English nor French have recently tried to register to vote.

The electoral officer says some of the people didn’t have proper documentation.

He called the situation “worrisome and abnormal.”

“It’s as if [Montreal's] Trudeau International Airport was wide open and we distributed free visas to anyone who came through, without question,” Mathieu Vandal, the president of local electoral office in Montreal’s Sainte-Marie-Saint-Jacques, told Le Devoir.

The downtown riding is 75% first-language French, but is also home to a large number of university students.

Vandal says about half the people trying to register since last Monday were anglophone or allophone.

He resigned from his post on Friday, according to Le Devoir.

Quebec’s chief electoral office has not returned a request for comment from The Canadian Press.

Allegations surfaced earlier in the week that Quebec university students from elsewhere in Canada were unable to register in the April 7 election.

Dune Desormeaux, a fourth-year student at McGill who is originally from British Columbia, said Saturday he was turned away when he tried to register.

The 21-year-old said he brought the necessary identification but was told he couldn’t vote because he was a student.

“I had anticipated having no problems,” he said in an interview.

“I brought the documents requested — my picture ID and a proof of address. And basically I was told, after a reasonably long discussion, that I would not be eligible to vote because I was not domiciled in Quebec as they said.”

According to the website of Quebec’s electoral office, to be eligible to vote a person must be a Canadian citizen and have lived in Quebec for six months.

They must also have the intention of making Quebec their “principal establishment,” according to the Quebec civil code.

Since moving to the province, Desormeaux said he has only returned to British Columbia for a few weeks a year.

:

 

[Nfld Sapper]

:facepalm: sounds like she is channelling Parizeau and his "ethnic vote" bullshit...

 

[upandatom]

The wheel spins yet again. Based on the past referenda, the area of Quebec covered by majority separatists (as measured by riding) encompasses most of the area defined by "New France" at the time of the conquest: i.e. pretty much a strip along the St Lawrence river. It isn't a continuous strip either, Montreal is not pro separatist (note are several other areas as described up-thread).

As a technicality, the huge expanse of northern Quebec (south of James Bay) which was the old "Rupert's Land" territory of the HBC was only handed to Quebec as an administrative convenience (and this is also one of the areas where the Native population is quite vocal about not separating from Canada). If the "District of Ungava" were to separate from Quebec, we would have essentially a northern land corridor linking Ontario to Labrador, and in due time could build road, rail, pipeline and hydro corridors to link Canada to the Atlantic.

Of course the St Lawrence Seaway is a joint project by Canada and the United States, even if *we* were unable or unwilling to stake our claim I'm pretty sure the United States will not let their claim lapse (and of course they can enforce their claim as well).

I'm pretty sure that outside of the desire of some Quebec ideologues to become bigger fish by making a smaller pond, the MO of the PQ is to attempt to blackmail Canada with more threats. As a lot of you note, most Canadians are past the point of caring, and it seems the PQ leadership hasn't read "The Big Shift" or come to terms with the fact that demographics and economics has shifted westward. The days when Montreal was the financial capital of Canada is long gone, and while the PQ may scramble to get something like that back, Toronto's position as the financial capital of Canada is under threat from places like Calgary, Edmonton and Vancouver; the PQ is literally swimming against a huge tidal bore.

The fact that the demographic shift also means a majority government can be formed without a significant representation from Quebec must also stick in their craws, so the rhetoric is ramped up to "11" in an attempt to gain a voice since they no longer have a seat at the table.

Like most other people, I'm pretty willing to set the receiver to "ignore", but think some quiet preparations need to be made in case someone or something slips up. If there is a referendum and a UDI, the GoC should have some pretty clear conditions in place (like a non negotiable "every riding with a 60% yes supermajority is no longer part of Canada", and "the costs of evacuating Canadian citizens from ridings with a 60% supermajority will be taken from the current year's equalization payments, while the Government of Quebec bears the costs of moving people who wish into territory controlled by the new Government"). Other administrative actions like  a new census, voting rolls and quickly recalling and issuing new Canadian passports should also be in place. Do it quickly, like ripping off a bandage, and many long term problems will be prevented from festering.

edit to correct autocorrect....

Exactly- if its going to happen it will, Rick Mercer had a good rant- Also great point on letting "Ridings" go that want to, let them, instill guards on all military facilities until everything is moved out.

Center of Canada has now moved West, noone cares about a Seperation anymore.

 

[Old Sweat]

For a break from speculating on the post-separation situation, this story from the Montreal Gazette reports that the latest poll suggests the Liberals have a seven point lead. It is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provision of the Copyright Act.

Liberals ahead by seven points in latest poll


THE GAZETTE MARCH 25, 2014
 
Liberals ahead by seven points in latest poll

Results of a Léger Marketing poll of 3,692 people conducted for the Journal de Montréal and published March 25.
MONTREAL — A new poll by Léger Marketing has confirmed the Liberal Party of Quebec is ahead in voter intentions and heading toward not only winning the April 7 election but doing so with a majority.

The poll, published in the Journal de Montréal on Tuesday, shows the Liberals with 40 per cent support, followed by the Parti Québécois with 33 per cent, the Coalition Avenir Québec with 15 per cent, and Québec solidaire with nine per cent.

The poll, which had 3,692 respondents, making it the largest sample taken in this election, also shows the Liberals ahead in most of Quebec’s regions. It leads in the Outaouais, Montreal, Laval, Estrie, Chaudière-Appalaches, Mauricie and Quebec City regions, and slightly ahead in the Montérégie region. Its 42 per cent support in the Quebec City region, compared to 25 per cent for the PQ and 20 per cent for the CAQ, would change the map there. Nine of the CAQ’s 19 seats are in and around Quebec City.

The Liberals’ 53 per cent support in Laval, meanwhile, would likely translate into a sweep of the city in the next election. The Liberals currently have four seats on Ile Jésus, while the PQ has the other two.

The PQ leads in Abitibi-Témincamingue, Laurentians/Lanaudière, Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean/Côte-Nord and Bas-St-Laurent/Gaspésie/Iles-de-la-Madeleine regions.

Bryan Breguet of poll watcher Too Close to Call calculated that with this latest poll, the Liberals have a 71 per cent chance of a majority government, and an 86 per cent chance of winning the election.

© Copyright (c) The Montreal Gazette

 

[upandatom]

For a break from speculating on the post-separation situation, this story from the Montreal Gazette reports that the latest poll suggests the Liberals have a seven point lead. It is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provision of the Copyright Act.

Liberals ahead by seven points in latest poll


THE GAZETTE MARCH 25, 2014
 
Liberals ahead by seven points in latest poll

Results of a Léger Marketing poll of 3,692 people conducted for the Journal de Montréal and published March 25.
MONTREAL — A new poll by Léger Marketing has confirmed the Liberal Party of Quebec is ahead in voter intentions and heading toward not only winning the April 7 election but doing so with a majority.

The poll, published in the Journal de Montréal on Tuesday, shows the Liberals with 40 per cent support, followed by the Parti Québécois with 33 per cent, the Coalition Avenir Québec with 15 per cent, and Québec solidaire with nine per cent.

The poll, which had 3,692 respondents, making it the largest sample taken in this election, also shows the Liberals ahead in most of Quebec’s regions. It leads in the Outaouais, Montreal, Laval, Estrie, Chaudière-Appalaches, Mauricie and Quebec City regions, and slightly ahead in the Montérégie region. Its 42 per cent support in the Quebec City region, compared to 25 per cent for the PQ and 20 per cent for the CAQ, would change the map there. Nine of the CAQ’s 19 seats are in and around Quebec City.

The Liberals’ 53 per cent support in Laval, meanwhile, would likely translate into a sweep of the city in the next election. The Liberals currently have four seats on Ile Jésus, while the PQ has the other two.

The PQ leads in Abitibi-Témincamingue, Laurentians/Lanaudière, Saguenay-Lac-St-Jean/Côte-Nord and Bas-St-Laurent/Gaspésie/Iles-de-la-Madeleine regions.

Bryan Breguet of poll watcher Too Close to Call calculated that with this latest poll, the Liberals have a 71 per cent chance of a majority government, and an 86 per cent chance of winning the election.

© Copyright (c) The Montreal Gazette

I want to see this Corruption thing all the way to the end, (including Marois testifying) so Im going to bet on the Majority Government. I can see the Liberals hammering it jut to put the final kicks to the PQ when they are down.

The biggest thing though, this is a Poll, from alot of different areas, but as you all know, the way someone or an area votes can change two streets over. Hopefully this is a bang on the nose poll.

 

[Remius]

Plus, it would seem that the PQ are in panic mode.  Trying to use fear mongering to get the vote.  Lol.  This was Marois' election to lose.  If she does lose, she's done.  But as we have seen, sometimes it just takes a slip up to turn things on their head.  Still two weeks to go... 

 

[a_majoor]

The message is slipping from the control of the PQ, and currently the Liberals are opening a lead in the polls (of course we all know which poll actually counts). The National Post has two interesting articles on this, and Premier Marois is apparently also trying to keep her personal wealth out of the picture as well (the Liberal leader has offered to post his tax returns on line, she has refused):

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03/26/parti-quebecois-says-it-was-told-to-keep-quiet-after-questioning-by-anti-corruption-cops/

Parti Québécois says it was told to keep quiet after questioning by anti-corruption cops

Sidhartha Banerjee, Canadian Press | March 26, 2014 4:33 PM ET
More from Canadian Press
Parti Quebecois leader Pauline Marois speaks at a news conference during a campaign stop in Montreal on Wednesday, March 26, 2014.

MONTREAL — Parti Quebecois Leader Pauline Marois was put on the defensive Wednesday over her party’s decision to keep quiet about a meeting two of its senior officials had with provincial anti-corruption officials in February.

With the Quebec election campaign focusing in recent days on integrity and corruption, Marois said there was nothing sinister about the PQ’s silence on the meeting with the UPAC anti-corruption unit.

Marois told a news conference it was UPAC that asked the party not to talk about a meeting the party has described as informal and centred on party financing.

“My director general told me that UPAC asked him not to talk about this visit,” Marois said, adding she was informed by party officials a few days after it happened.

The meeting only came to light late Tuesday through media reports and was quickly confirmed in a PQ statement.

Related
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Last September, when Liberal Leader Philippe Couillard was met by the anti-corruption squad a few months after raids at Liberal offices, he held a news conference the same day to clear the air.

“We don’t have anything to hide,” Marois said. “When UPAC came to the Parti Quebecois, they asked for some information about the way we do financing.”

Marois has been attacking the Liberals for several days on integrity issues as her party runs second in various polls.

She said it’s unfair to compare the February meeting with the Liberal encounters with UPAC. The anti-corruption force seized documents in the Liberal raids as part of an ongoing corruption investigation.

“I will never accept that we compare the Liberals and the PQ when it comes to financing and granting of contracts,” Marois said.

Marois also repeated that UPAC had met with all political parties, but the Coalition for Quebec’s Future insists it never had such a meeting.

Issues of ethics, integrity and corruption dominated the campaign trail on Wednesday.

Marois had to backtrack on an error she’s repeated in the past few days: that ex-Liberal minister Tony Tomassi is facing criminal charges related to the selling of daycare permits.

After several questions on the matter, Marois conceded that the charges of fraud and breach of trust against Tomassi stem from the use of a credit card provided to him by a now-defunct security company.

Tomassi is one of the examples she has cited in recent days in her attacks on the Liberals’ integrity record. In another, Marois has talked about a now abandoned policy by the Liberals to have ministers each raise $100,000 per year in fundraising.

On Wednesday, Coaltion Leader Francois Legault said the PQ had similar fundraising objectives when he was with the sovereigntist party.

Legault spent 11 years at the legislature with the PQ before eventually becoming Coalition leader in 2012. He called the PQ attacks on the Liberals “hypocritical.”

“Every year, I had to raise $80,000 because I had been there longer,” Legault said. “There was an amount for each riding, each party member … and when people did not reach their objectives, they were called to the party headquarters.”

The PQ denied Legault’s claim. Marois said riding associations set goals each year for the amount of money to be raised, but it wasn’t a practice that extended to ministers.

Legault also agreed to disclose his personal financial information for 2012, answering Couillard’s call this week.

The Liberal leader promised to publish 2012 income-tax returns and other financial details about himself and his wife on his party’s website before Thursday’s leaders’ debate and encouraged his counterparts to do the same.

Couillard called it a question of transparency. Legault relented on Wednesday after appearing hesitant a day earlier.

“In order to have full integrity and show full integrity, I will table in the next few days all my assets and the assets of my wife,” Legault said.

For her part, Marois maintained she will not make her and her husband’s personal financial information public. She noted her spouse, wealthy businessman Claude Blanchet, has stepped down from any positions he had on boards of directors and his investments are tied up in a blind trust.

Marois repeated that she provides all relevant financial documentation to the province’s ethics commissioner.

All three leaders were in Montreal ahead of their second televised debate, which will also feature Francoise David of Quebec solidaire.

Couillard was asked at one event about $428,000 in party financing that still remains unaccounted for.

The figure stems from recently released UPAC court documents describing the search of Liberal offices last July and the companies of ex-party fundraiser Marc Bibeau in November. The documents suggested the Liberals amassed more than $700,000 in contributions, including one event that generated the $428,000.

Couillard said Wednesday there was no record of that amount in the party’s books, but he has faith in UPAC to get the bottom of the situation.

“If anybody has done anything wrong, we want to know the truth,” Couillard said. “And, by the way, all the 50,000 members of our party want to know the truth and want people to be accountable for that.”

Couillard has been under constant attack for integrity issues that surfaced under his predecessor’s watch. The PQ attacks have centred on scandals that occurred when Jean Charest was premier.

But the Liberal leader, who is leading in public opinion polls, said he isn’t interested in mudslinging. He didn’t want to dwell on past anti-corruption moves by his party.

“What I think [of the past] isn’t important,” Couillard said. “It’s what I’ve done since becoming leader.”

Meanwhile, Legault was asked if he thought his party was the cleanest of the bunch.

“What I can say is you cannot have somebody cleaner than me,” he replied. “I have no skeletons in my closet.”

with files from Alexandre Robillard, Patrice Bergeron and Martin Ouellet

and

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/03/26/matt-gurney-good-news-for-canada-even-the-separatists-cant-talk-about-separation/

Matt Gurney: Good news for Canada: Even the separatists can’t talk about separation

Matt Gurney | March 26, 2014 9:05 AM ET

Polls being what they’ve been during recent political campaigns, it’s way too early to make any firm predictions. But at the very least, we can say that Quebec’s provincial election campaign has been rather different from the one most commentators were expecting. A month ago, the smart money — well, maybe not so smart — was on the Parti Quebecois winning an easy majority government on the backs of their proposed Charter of Values, which seeks to make secularism enforceable among civil servants. Instead, the provincial Liberals seem set to win — potentially win big — an election that was fought largely on sovereignty.

This raises an intriguing question. It seems to be taken as a given that many Quebecers — separatists and federalists alike — regarded the next few years as the last chance for sovereignty. Ideas never die, and there will always be some Quebecers who want to live in their own state. But support for separation is strongest among francophones of middle-aged and higher, and weaker among young voters and the immigrants who increasingly make up for the province’s low birth rate. In 50 years, this just might be a dead issue.

That may help explain some of the apparent panic in PQ ranks as the polls have gone against them. They’re not just seeing an election slip away. They may be losing the whole dream. But, if that’s the case … isn’t the dream already dead?

Again, it won’t ever be entirely dead. And it may well reinvent itself in the future, in some different form and with different justifications. But for now, we’re confronted with the intriguing possibility that openly discussing separatism may have somehow become fatal to provincial campaigns in Quebec. The chance to secede may have been lost years ago without any of us noticing.

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And where the hell does that leave us? Sovereignty is their guiding principle — literally the first item in their party charter. A PQ party that is forced to accept that separatism is politically toxic looks like what, exactly?

Arguably, it looks a lot like it did three weeks ago: a party that talks about “secularism” and “values” and the status of the French language, but never sovereignty itself. A party that talks around its central, guiding goal, because it can’t talk about it. A party that proposes commissioning white papers on sovereignty instead of committing to holding referendums. And, sadly, a party that will continue to prioritize fostering insecurity at home, and irritation in the other provinces, as a way of at maximizing its own political fortunes. If so, nothing’s really changed at all.

But on a deeper level, it’s hard to look at the campaign of the last few weeks and believe that we’ll ever go right back to the status quo of that long ago era of … earlier in March. The PQ wasn’t eager to talk separation then, probably because they didn’t want to rock the boat before, or during, an election. But that was likely out of an abundance of caution, not a belief that one star PQ candidate raising his fist and saying, “Let’s make Quebec a country!” was all it would take to torpedo their campaign. It’s one thing to know that sovereignty isn’t exactly an asset for one’s hopes, in other words, but it’s quite another to be forced to conclude that it’s actually a disaster.

This isn’t exactly an endorsement of the Canadian federation itself. A lot of the voters that the polls suggest are fleeing the PQ probably haven’t suddenly stitched little maple leafs onto their jackets. But they are signalling that while they may like the idea of a separate Quebec in theory, they aren’t willing to risk it in practice. Even separatists, it seems, would rather remain Canadian than go through the uncertainty of a separation.

So, no, not an endorsement of Canada. But still, good news for it. Unless the PQ stages a major recovery, and it still can, they’ll have lost some of their ability to wield the threat of another refendum over the rest of Canada. They tried, and it hurt them. It may not help the anglos on Montreal’s Metro or the kids who want to play soccer in their turbans, but all things considered, it’s a small bit of good news we shouldn’t hesitate to embrace.

National Post

 

[upandatom]

Election or Not,

The investigation should continue-

IDGAF, shes corrupt, she lies, and she incites fear mongering and hate crimes. If she is stealing money, there is no way her current position and the fact its mid election should interfere with a Criminal investigation into allegations of Fraud and Corruption. Any other Canadian would not be able to say, "what until April 7th", and if it were any other party, I guarantee that @%^ would be hooting and hollering to get it finished before the election was over.

She goes against everything that being a Canadian stands for and it boggles my mind how the Federal government just sits back on its hands-

no it doesnt really, Quebec is not the centre of Canada anymore, the west is, with the oil and money. Good for them.

 

[a_majoor]

Election or Not,

The investigation should continue-

Yes, an investigation should continue, but everyone is still innocent until proven guilty

She goes against everything that being a Canadian stands for and it boggles my mind how the Federal government just sits back on its hands-

The strategy of the PQ is to provoke fights with the Federal Government and the ROC. The best strategy in this case is to place them on "ignore" and let them start chewing on each other

 

[Infanteer]

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/03/31/andrew-coyne-marois-pq-joins-list-of-those-who-would-use-notwithstanding-clause-to-block-minority-rights/

Interesting editorial, if not for the specifics on PQ anticipated stratagems, then for Coyne's comment:

Which is clarifying in a different way. It reminds us of what kind of country we live in, and what kinds of things are possible in it. If the PQ wins a majority, that is, and proceeds with its plans, it will mean that in Canada, in 2014, a government can pass legislation to, in effect, purge the civil service of religious minorities — thousands of observant Jews, Muslims, and Sikhs, dismissed from employment for no reason other than that they refuse to renounce the symbols of their faith — and those affected can have no recourse to the courts to protect them. And we owe this possibility to the notwithstanding clause.

We must always be suspicious of the term "progress".  In the 20th century, the nation with the cultural inheritance of Beethoven, Schiller and Goethe was able to convince itself to stick six million people in ovens.  Humanity is capable of repeating such feats of evil and quotes like Coyne's remind one of hell and intentions....