Quebec and the elections

[BruceinAlberta]

Now that I'm living in Canada, I've been fascinated by the upcoming election.  One thing that has not been raised too often is Quebec Separatism.  Do you think it will raise it's head again in the near future and will it happen?  Don't mean to be contentious but just a curious American living in Canada now.  My wife who is Canadian thinks someday it will happen.

 

[swanita]

I hope not, then i might be an "immigrant"  ;D

 

[TCBF]

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/34398.0.html

BruceinAlberta,

Above was a fairly recent thread about CF-18s apparently being flown out of CFB Bagotville, Quebec, on the eve of the last referendum in 1995.  The former base commander denied it.  The thread went on from there, with the odd hi-jack (guilty).

Speaking of hi-jacking a thread: I brought home my new Mossberg Maverick 88 in 12 Ga. today.  Nice pump:  Black plastic furniture, screw in chokes, long bbl with rail and dbl bead, short bbl, cable lock, $325 Cdn.  New.  Not bad for up here!

I can't wait to take it out, it has been all of five days since i last fired a 12Ga.  Or a 10 Ga.  Or a .45.  Or a 10mm.  Only three days since I fired a .22/250 though.  A heck of a good week, actually.

;D

Tom

Tom

 

[Jungle]

... Quebec Separatism.  Do you think it will raise it's head again in the near future and will it happen?

Actually, it's a good question; both the BQ and PQ are closely monitering the present campaign. They are looking at universal suffrage results in the upcoming election to determine support for a future referendum on separation; as it stands now, polls show 48% support for the BQ in Québec.

 

[Clément Barbeau Vermet]

as it stands now, polls show 48% support for the BQ in Québec.

I'm not scared about that. The reson why there is more separatism in Québec lately is because of the incompetance of the Liberal governements (federal and provincial). And don't forget that MANY poeple how vote for BQ or PQ are not separatists. They simply vote for these parties because they think it is better for them, they want to protest against the current federal government, their relatives convinced them to do so and stuff like that. In other words they don't even try to learn about the other parties.

The ''best'' worst example I can give you is my mother. For the last 2 elections (provincial 2003 and federal 2004 she voted: PQ because she said they are the ones who did the most for gays.
                        BQ because they are the ones who can do the most for Québec.
When she finnally had the right to get married with her girlfriend she did not do it (and still has not).
About a month after she voted  BQ in 2004 she decided to move to Alberta.

 

[FredDaHead]

they don't even try to learn about the other parties.

What other parties? Little Mario's ADQ? The crackpots at UFP? Who?

The ''best'' worst example I can give you is my mother. For the last 2 elections (provincial 2003 and federal 2004 she voted: PQ because she said they are the ones who did the most for gays.
                        BQ because they are the ones who can do the most for Québec.
When she finnally had the right to get married with her girlfriend she did not do it (and still has not).

What a stunning example of how the PQ hasn't done enough for gays.  : ...Or did you mean that the fact that they are progressive when it comes to gays doesn't matter?

About a month after she voted  BQ in 2004 she decided to move to Alberta.

So? How does that make her argument about the Bloc being able to to do the most for Quebec, invalid? Just because she decided not to stay in Quebec doesn't mean she isn't entitled to that opinion, or that opinion isn't right.

That's like saying that because Ontarians vote for the Lieberals, they're idiots. They're not, they're just sheep who are scared of the big bad Western wolf. ...See how that argument doesn't stand on it's own?

...I'm just playing the devil's advocate here, but you might wanna actually support your arguments better than that. You know what you mean, I can try and guess what you mean, but it's not exactly clear.

 

[Jungle]

I'm not scared about that.

Neither am I... they had 52% a few weeks ago.  8)

 

[geo]

To a lot of people from Quebec, they look at voting BQ for Quebec as being the same thing as Albertans voting for the Western Alliance - err - PCs. True or not - that's the way a lot of people think. Regional parties fighting to get the most bang for the buck for their region.

Will Quebec ever separate?..... who knows. Will Alberta?

 

[zipperhead_cop]

That's like saying that because Ontarians vote for the Lieberals, they're idiots. They're not, they're just sheep who are scared of the big bad Western wolf. ...See how that argument doesn't stand on it's own?

Ontarians are idiots for voting Lieberal.  And they are sheep.  In Ontario, the socialist hippie desire is there (not BC there, but still there) but people still remember what a donkey show the NDP put on during that uber-dark period when a million odd people had their heads in their ass and said "we aint tried these guys yet" and actually got in for a term.  So they hedge their bets and poke at the middle.  Mike Harris was great for this province (except for being a spineless dick on the Ipperwash incident) but he was too decisive for the general knob.

As far as separation--Alberta could make a good go of it probably, so could Ontario.  Quebec would be a third world country in 20 years if they separated, and would probably have to get annexed by the USA, who would have no tolerance for the Language Police.

 

[TCBF]

"As far as separation--Alberta could make a good go of it probably, so could Ontario.  Quebec would be a third world country in 20 years if they separated, and would probably have to get annexed by the USA, who would have no tolerance for the Language Police."

I think Quebec would do just fine.  They have a well educated and energetic workforce, and no shortage of the entrepreneurial spirit.  If they achieve Independence, the lefty policies that they (and all of the 'have-not' provinces) use to milk the Ottawa teat will be obsolete, and the Commie types in the BQ/PQ would  soon have to form their own party of irrelevance (which would never be elected in an independent Quebec).

Too small?  Not at all.  Other than the USA, the rest of the worlds ten richest nations are actually smaller than Canada - most are under 10,000,000 people.

Tom

 

[Clément Barbeau Vermet]

As far as separation--Alberta could make a good go of it probably, so could Ontario.  Quebec would be a third world country in 20 years if they separated, and would probably have to get annexed by the USA, who would have no tolerance for the Language Police.

An Independent Québec would do very well. I don't get it when people say it would get annexed by the USA. We would control the Fleuve Saint-Laurent, we have A LOT of natural ressources, we export hydroelectricity to Ontario, the USA and N.-B. Our rivers can provide a HUGE energy potential (large part of which is still unused). Our electricity is cheap, so it will make Québec a very important hydrogen producer in the future.
I could continue like that for a long time but I won't.

 

[Clément Barbeau Vermet]

What other parties? Little Mario's ADQ? The crackpots at UFP? Who?

The Conservatives or NDP or Liberals

What a stunning example of how the PQ hasn't done enough for gays....Or did you mean that the fact that they are progressive when it comes to gays doesn't matter?


So? How does that make her argument about the Bloc being able to to do the most for Quebec, invalid? Just because she decided not to stay in Quebec doesn't mean she isn't entitled to that opinion, or that opinion isn't right.
People who vote BQ but that do not want Québec to be Independent vote only for their province, not for their country. My mother voted BQ not giving a f__k about the rest of her country, and then she decides to move to Alberta, which she completely ignored during the last elections. Just to show you that people who vote PQ and BQ are not necessarily indepadantists.

That's like saying that because Ontarians vote for the Liberals, they're idiots. They're not, they're just sheep who are scared of the big bad Western wolf. ...See how that argument doesn't stand on it's own?

That is not the same. The Conservatives, even if more popular in the west, have something to offer to the rest of Canada and have deputies everywear in this country.

...I'm just playing the devil's advocate here, but you might wanna actually support your arguments better than that. You know what you mean, I can try and guess what you mean, but it's not exactly clear.

 

[geo]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.........
Quebec needs Canada and Canada needs Quebec

(both could survive without the other..... it just wouldn't be very good life IMHO)

 

[TCBF]

Both, if properly governed, would do just fine. 

Tom

 

[zipperhead_cop]

An Independent Québec would do very well. I don't get it when people say it would get annexed by the USA. We would control the Fleuve Saint-Laurent, we have A LOT of natural ressources, we export hydroelectricity to Ontario, the USA and N.-B. Our rivers can provide a HUGE energy potential (large part of which is still unused). Our electricity is cheap, so it will make Québec a very important hydrogen producer in the future.
I could continue like that for a long time but I won't.

I completely don't agree, although I do retract the USA comment.  It would likely be Canada that would take back the runaway child and end up paying off a bunch of debt for an experiment that was doomed from the beginning. 
The St. Lawrence-how do you figure you control it?  It happens to run though Quebec, but what are you going to do?  Put a naval blockade (with what ships?) across it and charge toll to any shipping running in and out of Ontario?  I could see  a shooting skirmish over a great idea like that.  "Plains of Abraham Part II".  And don't forget there are lots of American ships going through there, and they don't take kindly to having their commerce screwed with.
And if I recall correctly, your HUGE energy potential is in the top half of the province?  I believe the same treaties that give you Quebec also take the land from several legit Native claims.  Don't think that they won't want their piece of the pie. 
And how would you control the hemorrhage of businesses that would jet at the first sign of real separation?  You really think a company like IBM is going to stick around and see what happens with your "experiment"?  Oh, that's right, you have Bombardier.  Oh, that's right, it's artificially propped up with free federal money and will cave in like a cheap house of cards without those grants. 
You guys have to get your head out of {edit: the clouds} and realize how much you need Canada, not the other way around. 
If you think that Quebec is such a viable juggernaut, then petition the new government to not accept one more penny of equalization payments from the Fed.  Should be a piece of cake to show the people what a paradise Le Belle Province can be without all of that dirty Anglo money.
Give it up.  You are living the pipe dreams of a bunch of chain smoking agitators that should have been tried as traitors a long time ago.  You should all get on with the business of embracing Canada, because alot of us are pretty sick of the winy separation BS, and I know a few people would be happy to see Quebec go, just to shut them up.
We are all better together.  We are a big, screwed up family, but a family none the less.

 

[FredDaHead]

And if I recall correctly, your HUGE energy potential is in the top half of the province?  I believe the same treaties that give you Quebec also take the land from several legit Native claims.  Don't think that they won't want their piece of the pie.

The Natives sold their lands to white people a couple hundred years ago. It's ours. Period. They got screwed over, but that's not our problem. If I sell you my house in exchange for a bed, are my descendants allowed to come see your descendants and say "hey, my grandfather got screwed over by YOUR grandfather, so now give me back my house or give me more money."

I think not.

If you think that Quebec is such a viable juggernaut, then petition the new government to not accept one more penny of equalization payments from the Fed.  Should be a piece of cake to show the people what a paradise Le Belle Province can be without all of that dirty Anglo money.

Then I guess we'll also stop paying taxes to Canada, right?

 

[Clément Barbeau Vermet]

We are all better together.  We are a big, screwed up family, but a family none the less.

Agreed

 

[Clément Barbeau Vermet]

Give it up.  You are living the pipe dreams of a bunch of chain smoking agitators that should have been tried as traitors a long time ago.  You should all get on with the business of embracing Canada, because alot of us are pretty sick of the winy separation BS, and I know a few people would be happy to see Quebec go, just to shut them up.

I understand what you guys from the other provinces think of us, Québéquois, with all the trouble we have been giving to the rest of Canada for some 30 years now, because we want to be independant for seemingly no good reason.

The reason why is because French-Canadians have been oppressed by Anglo-Canadians and ''Great'' Britain for about 200 years up to the 1960's. Things have changed and it is not like that anymore, that is why I stick to Canada. Is that respectfull for my Patriottes ancestors, dozens of political men and women and thousands of normal persons, including my father, who fought all their lives so future French-Canadians generations (including me) could have all the rights and chances that Anglo-Canadians have? I don't think so. I do not want Québec to separate, but if it did, I would stay here.

 

[Clément Barbeau Vermet]

realize how much you need Canada, not the other way around. 

Yes, and the queen even more

 

[Clément Barbeau Vermet]

 
The St. Lawrence-how do you figure you control it?  It happens to run though Quebec, but what are you going to do?  Put a naval blockade (with what ships?) across it and charge toll to any shipping running in and out of Ontario? 

Tax it, maybe.