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Quebec Liberals call province 'nation'

An alternative take, how to say "Canada is a Nation":

http://www.bloggingtories.ca/brookstreet/2006/11/time_for_a_free_market_nation.html

Time for a "Free Market Nation"
The recent Parliamentary commotion about Quebec’s “nationhood” proves the nationalists in Quebec are winning.

And that’s something all those people praising Prime Minister Stephen Harper for his “masterstroke” resolution seem to be forgetting.

Yes, Harper scored a skillful tactical victory with his “the Québécois form a nation within a united Canada” resolution and yes he did throw the Bloc Quebecois for a loop.

But what about the bigger picture?

Let’s face it, Harper had to introduce his resolution because he was afraid his own caucus members, including cabinet ministers, might support a similar Bloc resolution.

The Prime Minister also feared if his party voted against a resolution calling Quebec a nation they would lose votes in that province.

Also telling is the Prime Minister didn’t dare introduce a resolution saying something like, “Canada is the only nation for Canadians”, a resolution no Quebec politician from any party would have voted for it.

What does that say about Quebec’s relationship with the rest of Canada?

To me it says the “Quebecois nation” has little or no emotional attachment to the nation-state we call Canada.

Is that a bad thing?

Not necessarily. In fact, in this day and age of multiculturalism and immigration, coupled with the emergence of new communication technology and globalization the nation-state as we know it is becoming less and less relevant.

Let’s not forget many western Canadians are also growing alienated with what’s going on in Ottawa these days.

I suppose we could call “Albertans a nation within a united Canada” or we could try something else.

For instance, why don’t we redefine federalism?

Instead of actively seeking to pander and appease Quebec nationalists with Parliamentary resolutions, let’s instead reduce the size and scope of the federal government.

Hand over power to the provinces or the regions or better yet privatize federal operations that could be better run by the private sector – the CBC and the Post Office spring to mind.

Other institutions like the CRTC could simply be scrapped.

Some people might call this radical.

But I would call it creating a nation that could appeal to all Canadians: a free enterprise nation.

Posted by Gerry Nicholls on November 29, 2006 7:56 AM

Since Ethnic Nationalism seeks to exclude potential challengers for political and economic supremacy, the concept of creating smaller ponds to increase the relative size of the fish within makes sense. This plan effectively drains the water from the pond, leaving the Phil Fontaine's and Giles Duceppe's flopping and gasping without access to State funds and State power to further their own personal agenda.
 
Two views:

http://www.daifallah.com/2006/11/my-last-post-on-nation-i-hope.htm

My last post on the nation -- I hope

    David Mader, aka the smartest person I know, has thrown down the gauntlet on my reasoning for supporting the Québec is a nation concept.

    First, since everyone wants to talk about the definition of what a Québécois is, let me give you my definition. It is not Jean-Pierre Blackburn's. Québécois nationhood is a civic nationhood based on a variety of things including a common language, culture, values and legal system. Contrary to what Lawrence Cannon sort of said (he was too incoherent to fully understand), you do not have to be a "pure laine" francophone to be a part of it. Anyone living in Québec can be a part of the Québécois nation, or they can choose not to be. Some Québébers would consider themselves only as part of the Québecois nation, some as part of the Canadian one, and many to be part of both. And yes, the motion should have said Quebecker in the English version.

    To David's toughtful commentary: I was not trying to say theories are irrelevant in this matter. I am a small-l liberal in the tradition of Locke just like Andrew Coyne -- who is, by the way, someone I consider a friend and with whom I agree 99% of the time. I am saying that Andrew's concept of a Canadian nationhood, which he likes to draw back to Lockean liberal principles -- is irrelevant in the context of Canada in 2006. I don't even like the concept of nationalism, and I wish it weren't something we had to deal with. But Andrew and Tom Axworthy want to fit every province and every Canadian into a tight, perfect little intellectual box -- the "one size fits all" view of citizenship promoted vigorously by Pierre Trudeau -- that few Canadians, especially those under the age of 40, I think, can associate with. I think that vision of Canada is passé and cannot be salvaged -- arguably it never could.

    Of course the principle of recognizing "reality" has limits, and I would never subscribe to anything that would throw into question the equality of all Canadians before the law. The examples David cited are not the same as the Québec/Canada question. Here we are talking about fundamental issues of basic idendity, sense of self, sociology and citizenship and how people see their own existance.

    I should have been more clear on what my "facts on the ground" are. Those facts are that just about every francophone in Québec -- even hardcore federalists -- are nationalists. There's no getting around that. Many of those people like Canada, feel Canadian and want to continue being Canadian, but they are usually Québecers first. They have a loyalty to Québec first. That is what the reality is. Canadians outside Québec have a hard time accepting that and may never do so, as the poll results David posted demonstrate. Indeed, this reluctance to accept the Candian reality may lead to the end of the country. I sincerely hope it won't and I'm willing to make concessions to ensure it doesn't happen. I suppose some, maybe even Coyne, would say no to any concessions and that if that realily is there, there's no point in staying together. "So be it." Let's go our separate ways. It was Trudeau, after all, who said the country should go out with a bang, and not a whimper. But my view is that if we accept what Canada really is and stop pretending it is something it isn't, we can move foward together.

    And I think we've all lost sight here of why this happened: Ignatieff made it a front-and-centre issue of his leadership campaign, the Bloc seized on it, and Harper had to act. Voting down the Bloc motion would have led to yet another "national unity crisis" and given the separatists 60 seats in the next election. Harper would have probably lost a couple of cabinet ministers and MPs.

    One more thing: In reading comments on this blog and judging by the private communication I have received since the TV show, there is a generational issue at play here -- noted today by the Ontario Premier. I notice very little interest in this issue amongst younger Québecers and even younger Canadians. I don't know if this means there is a larger acceptance of the "reality on teh ground" by our age group, or whether it's just indifference. But it is pretty clear that this is a battle that concerns the battle-scarred veterans of the Trudeau/Levesque years more than anyone else.

    UPDATE: Promise, last thing -- I'm not sure where Andrew stands on this, but some would argue that any kind of nationalism is incompatible with liberalism. The Trudeau schoolers -- great defenders of individualism and liberalism they claim to be, despite their confiscatory tax policies -- are not opposed to nationalism. They just oppose any nationalism that isn't theirs.

    # posted by Adam Daifallah : 5:18 PM

http://www.maderblog.com/

A Question for Daifallah

I hope my friend AD won't mind my calling him out like this, but I think this could be interesting. Adam was involved in a very interesting debate with, among others, Andrew Coyne, regarding the deux nations resolution. In response to the arguments by Coyne and Tom Axworthy regarding liberal political theory, Daifallah essentially argued (and he'll correct me, I hope, if I mischaracterize him) that theories were essentially irrelevant in the face of 'the facts on the ground' and 'the reality' of Quebec nationhood.

My question to Adam is where - or whether - he locates a limit to that principle. The notion of equality before the law is probably demonstrably or empirically disprovable based on, for instance, disparities in the incarceration rates of natives and whites. Should we forget about the notion of equality before the law? The principle of free speech was challenged by those who felt personal injury in the publication of the Mohammed cartoons. Should we restrict the principle of freedom of speech? Should we do so if those who are aggrieved create a 'reality on the ground' of violent response to free expression they deem unacceptable?

On a deeper level, what principle governs our recognition of 'the facts on the ground'? The great strength of liberal political theory is its objectivity - it restricts the number of normative judgments involved in the creation and perpetuation of a political state to essentially two: individuals ought to be free and they ought to be equal. But what objective or falsifiable principle will tell us exactly what the 'facts on the ground' are at any given time? In fact, isn't a 'facts on the ground' approach simply a warrant to impose whatever subjective political preference happens to enjoy majority support?

As I've said before, I know very little about Canadian constitutional issues, and I certainly defer to Adam regarding the state of affairs in Quebec. But rather than simply being more persuaded by Coyne's arguments in favor of one-nationhood, I'm actually affirmatively dissuaded by Adam's arguments in favor of dual-nationhood, at least insofar as those arguments rely on a preference for "facts on the ground" over classical liberal political theory.

As always, though, I'm willing to be persuaded. Reader thoughts are, of course, more than welcome.

FOR INSTANCE: Do these results constitute "facts on the ground"?

    Canadians overwhelmingly rejected the concept of Quebec nationhood in a new poll released Tuesday, one day after all parties in Parliament declared the Quebecois a nation within Canada.

    Outside Quebec, 77 per cent of Canadians rejected the idea the province forms a nation, suggested the Leger Marketing survey conducted for the TVA television network and distributed to The Canadian Press.

    Among regional, linguistic and Liberal party breakdowns, French-speaking Quebeckers, at 71 per cent, were the only group to “personally consider that Quebeckers form a nation.”

    The exact question in the Nov. 16-26 poll was, “Currently, there is a political debate on recognizing Quebec as a nation. Do you personally consider that Quebeckers form a nation or not?”

    Canadians from every region outside Quebec, non-francophone Quebeckers (62 per cent), Liberal party supporters (72 per cent), francophone Canadians outside Quebec (77 per cent) all resoundingly rejected the idea.

And if so, why should the "facts on the ground" inside of Quebec - which, it turns out, are only "facts on the ground" as pertains to francaphone Quebeckers, thereby pretty clearly undermining the assertion that nationhood is non-ethnic - why should these "facts on the ground" trump the apparent "facts on the ground" in the other nine provinces of confederation? Why, that is, except for a subjective elevation of the interests and opinions of a sub-set of Quebeckers over the apparent states interest and opinion of a clear majority of all Canadians?

Posted by David Mader at 21:35
 
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