RCMP Commissioner Lucki Stepping Down

[lenaitch]

The only federal system that could work is a governing structure for their own smaller services- like an auditor for standards and a linkage for service to service stuff. I feel like a provincial First Nations force is more possible,

Or even treaty-based, which tended to address the same 'nation'. Many cross provincial boundaries (i.e. Treaty 3) but thee police service is limited by tripartite funding. Another complicating fact is the lack of treaties in all areas, including the Far North. Also, anybody who thinks there isn't rivalry and animosity between nations has not had to deal with them.

 

[Booter]

Treaty based is even better still. Probably more appropriate. Those nations out of treaty would have to set up regional forces- something akin to KRPF in Nunavik.

There is a quality issue in lots of this- but that’s a thing to fix not a reason to abandon. Having agency over your community and self government means meeting these kinds of things. Similar to access to EMS and fire services.

 

[Spencer100]

The whole country needs a good dose of Subsidiarity. Policing would be a good place to start too. FN should get a dose too. Let them run the Police in their committees. Hell let the provinces then towns too if they want. RCMP can handle international crime and the big stuff. Plus the resources for things like that.

Many of the problems we have today in the country would greatly reduced by just putting Subsidiarity concepts into practice. Stop the micro management of the lower levels of government by the next one up.

 

[brihard]

The whole country needs a good dose of Subsidiarity. Policing would be a good place to start too. FN should get a dose too. Let them run the Police in their committees. Hell let the provinces then towns too if they want. RCMP can handle international crime and the big stuff. Plus the resources for things like that.

Many of the problems we have today in the country would greatly reduced by just putting Subsidiarity concepts into practice. Stop the micro management of the lower levels of government by the next one up.

So, you mean the way it already is where administration of justice is a provincial responsibility under the Constitution Act, and provinces provide or contract police services for municipalities that don’t choose to do it themselves, including First Nations?

 

[Spencer100]

So, you mean the way it already is where administration of justice is a provincial responsibility under the Constitution Act, and provinces provide or contract police services for municipalities that don’t choose to do it themselves, including First Nations?

Yes but going back to original principles would be great!

Over the decades upper levels have taken more and more control by using many different mechanisms. "National Standards", Green Standards, Reporting standards etc etc....control of budgets.

 

[brihard]

Yes but going back to original principles would be great!

Over the decades upper levels have taken more and more control by using many different mechanisms. "National Standards", Green Standards, Reporting standards etc etc....control of budgets.

Provinces are free to impose their own higher standards on certain aspects of policing and often do so. Any province where the RCMP are the provincial police by contract, they’re subject to whatever that province has in its Police Services Act, or whatever name their province has for equivalent legislation.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I'm not sure how well that would work. Indigenous people are not a homogeneous block and their cultures, social structures and governance can vary widely across the country. Ontario alone has about a dozen stand-alone FN police services; some are responsible for a single territory, others cover multiple communities, and there are still some policed directly by the OPP. I don't see how a nation-wide service would be responsive.

I did FN consulting for years, so painfully aware of the differences and outright hostilities between Bands. I looking at a smaller force that at first goes to troubled Reserves and start to work with the Council and the local detachment, they have their own SOP's. Their job is to put a Indigenous face to the enforcement and to break down communication walls and to also inspire the youth in those communities that there is other avenues to go in their lives. For quite awhile it will be a travelling circus, till they start getting enough people to stay for awhile in one place. They may develop programs to build community policing options. While the FN police are fully trained LEO's, they will need to feel out what SOP's work and don't work and have the authority to adapt them. It's highly imperfect, but the current system is not working well either.

 

[Furniture]

Often times they are sent away with things they need to fix to become more competitive with other white males- like education or community involvement and they don’t like the idea of tuning their application for another year or two.

What I find interesting is the fact the RCMP is becoming critically short of members to do the routine uniformed police work, but still turning away people who meet the minimum standard.

It seems that just like the CAF, the RCMP is stuck in the Boomer/Gen X/early-Millennial era mindset of being an "employer of choice", and hasn't yet caught on to the notion that the demographics are changing, and there are now more jobs than preferred workers.

 

[Booter]

What I find interesting is the fact the RCMP is becoming critically short of members to do the routine uniformed police work, but still turning away people who meet the minimum standard.

It seems that just like the CAF, the RCMP is stuck in the Boomer/Gen X/early-Millennial era mindset of being an "employer of choice", and hasn't yet caught on to the notion that the demographics are changing, and there are now more jobs than preferred workers.

People are not applying. This isn’t the exact numbers but from the last year there have been 1500 applications for 1300 empty positions. That’s not people passing the minimum- that’s people Applying.

The applications have been in free fall since about 2017 which was the last time we have over 10000 apply if I’m recalling correctly. Trending lower every year after that. I just looked at 2018 which was 8000- and expected to fall according to the RCMPs data. That’s the last published number I could find. That document stresses the RCMP needs to be vigilant about selecting the wrong people just to
Make numbers up.

I can’t recall the exact number at home on Easter but it’s something appalling like that, very close. There aren’t as many applicants as known vacancies and that doesnt account for those retiring monthly.

It’s not even saying yes to people- people aren’t even darkening the door to ask to join. The vacancies crush we re under and people are calling a crisis isn’t even the worst of it yet.

There was a period where I think what you re saying was the case- I think we ve moved beyond even that somehow!

 

[brihard]

People are not applying. This isn’t the exact numbers but from the last year there have been 1500 applications for 1300 empty positions. That’s not people passing the minimum- that’s people Applying.

I can’t recall the exact number at home on Easter but it’s something appalling like that, very close. There aren’t as many applicants as known vacancies and that doesnt account for those retiring monthly.

It’s not even saying yes to people- people aren’t even darkening the door to ask to join. The vacancies crush we re under and people are calling a crisis isn’t even the worst of it yet.

There was a period where I think what you re saying was the case- I think we ve moved beyond even that somehow!

Just wait til it’s been four or five years since the pay raise and best five for pensions have been boosted.

 

[lenaitch]

Yes but going back to original principles would be great!

Over the decades upper levels have taken more and more control by using many different mechanisms. "National Standards", Green Standards, Reporting standards etc etc....control of budgets.

When things, such as databases, are shared, you need standards. In terms of policing, and in the Ontario context which is the only one I'm halfways familiar with, adequacy standards (as they are called) levels the playing field so the residents in Bugtustle can enjoy a similar basic level of safety as those in Toronto., or we don't end up with the stereotypical small-town, revenue-based American model.

An added problem with FNTs is many of them have absolutely no tax base. They don't own the land, most have no equity in their housing. Without federal money, they couldn't afford the nightstick let alone the cop that swings it. Changeable perhaps, but a much larger issue than provision of protective and public safety services.

I did FN consulting for years, so painfully aware of the differences and outright hostilities between Bands. I looking at a smaller force that at first goes to troubled Reserves and start to work with the Council and the local detachment, they have their own SOP's. Their job is to put a Indigenous face to the enforcement and to break down communication walls and to also inspire the youth in those communities that there is other avenues to go in their lives. For quite awhile it will be a travelling circus, till they start getting enough people to stay for awhile in one place. They may develop programs to build community policing options. While the FN police are fully trained LEO's, they will need to feel out what SOP's work and don't work and have the authority to adapt them. It's highly imperfect, but the current system is not working well either.

It's a slow journey, particularly in remote FNTs. Even within the deployed FNs services in Ontario (NAN, NAPS and T3), many of the members are still non-indigenous 'southerners'.

 

[Booter]

It's a slow journey, particularly in remote FNTs. Even within the deployed FNs services in Ontario (NAN, NAPS and T3), many of the members are still non-indigenous 'southerners'.

Many moons ago I was working a beheading taking over a major investigation that the local FN police didn’t have the capacity for, I made a comment it was twenty 20 year old white men and women in that service- except the sgt. Who was an excellent guy and I’d suggest pretty well seasoned.

He mentioned to me that they had released all the officers in the service for corruption and these had just graduated a few weeks ago and taken on the force as an emergency.

I was shocked that they were fielding all those cadets as the whole force- but also impressed that they had made the decision to axe all that corruption.

It is a complicated operational environment.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Many moons ago I was working a beheading taking over a major investigation that the local FN police didn’t have the capacity for, I made a comment it was twenty 20 year old white men and women in that service- except the sgt. Who was an excellent guy and I’d suggest pretty well seasoned.

He mentioned to me that they had released all the officers in the service for corruption and these had just graduated a few weeks ago and taken on the force as an emergency.

I was shocked that they were fielding all those cadets as the whole force- but also impressed that they had made the decision to axe all that corruption.

It is a complicated operational environment.

Maybe the RCMP, and various First Nations' police units, could use some back up from the CAF...

.... Like the Yukon Field Force:

The Yukon Field Force, later termed the Yukon Garrison, was a unit of 203 officers and men from the Permanent Force of the Canadian Militia that served in the Yukon between 1898 and 1900. The force was created in the wake of the Klondike Gold Rush in response to fears that the United States might attempt to seize the region. It left Ottawa on May 6, 1898, travelling by rail and sea to the port of Glenora in British Columbia. From there, the unit made an arduous journey of 890 kilometres (550 mi) on foot and using makeshift boats to Fort Selkirk, where they established their headquarters. A detachment of 72 men was sent to the boom town of Dawson City to support the North-West Mounted Police, with duties that included guarding the gold deposits of the local banks. As the fears of an annexation reduced, pressures grew for the recall of the force. The force was halved in size in July 1898 and the remainder were finally withdrawn in June 1900.


The 203-strong force consisted of 12 commissioned officers, 15 men from the Royal Canadian Dragoons, 46 men from the Royal Canadian Artillery and 130 men from the Royal Regiment of Canadian Infantry.[17] The force was formed up by asking for volunteers from the Permanent Force, who were told that the task would last at least two years; the detachment proved popular, with many soldiers putting themselves forward for it and, if necessary, extending their terms of service.[18] It was commanded by acting Lieutenant-Colonel Thomas Evans, a well-regarded officer based in Winnipeg, who had a background in managing cavalry, infantry and artillery.[19]

Yukon Field Force - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Booter]

I’ve read a lot about the Yukon- I wasn’t familiar with this.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

People are not applying. This isn’t the exact numbers but from the last year there have been 1500 applications for 1300 empty positions. That’s not people passing the minimum- that’s people Applying.

The applications have been in free fall since about 2017 which was the last time we have over 10000 apply if I’m recalling correctly. Trending lower every year after that. I just looked at 2018 which was 8000- and expected to fall according to the RCMPs data. That’s the last published number I could find. That document stresses the RCMP needs to be vigilant about selecting the wrong people just to
Make numbers up.

I can’t recall the exact number at home on Easter but it’s something appalling like that, very close. There aren’t as many applicants as known vacancies and that doesnt account for those retiring monthly.

It’s not even saying yes to people- people aren’t even darkening the door to ask to join. The vacancies crush we re under and people are calling a crisis isn’t even the worst of it yet.

There was a period where I think what you re saying was the case- I think we ve moved beyond even that somehow!

One of my volunteers has applied and not been picked. He is smart, good shape, Filipino, volunteers with kids, and already works with the client base in social work. I not getting what he is doing to make them not interested?

 

[mariomike]

Maybe the RCMP, and various First Nations' police units, could use some back up from the CAF...

Not surprised to read that. < smiley emoji.

Train up some reservists and put them onto Class B to work in ...

 

[Booter]

One of my volunteers has applied and not been picked. He is smart, good shape, Filipino, volunteers with kids, and already works with the client base in social work. I not getting what he is doing to make them not interested?

So. I have a Korean buddy from my time in CF. He’s probably the best Candidate and person I know. He was passed over because his security clearance was too murky because he spends a lot of time in Korea.

It’s hard to look at anyone’s package from the outside and understand the lunacy contained in the process.

 

[dapaterson]

Parts of the processes for recruiting (both military and police) need streamlining. Others are non-negotiable. For example, American restrictions on foreign nationals impact CAF recruiting, due to the American technology transfer conditions.

 

[brihard]

I’ve read a lot about the Yukon- I wasn’t familiar with this.

Ever been up there? It’s something else.

 

[Booter]

Ever been up there? It’s something else.

Nunavut and NWT but my transfer to Whitehorse fell through and I wound up….in Manitoba.