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RCN to introduce new Conduct Policy and new Alcohol Policy

Pusser

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Chief Stoker said:
Back in the day (early 90's) we used to have a canteen at DC DIV and at lunch hour buy a couple of beers and go fight fires. Today, I would say everything in moderation, if I was to go out at lunch and have a beer it shouldn't be a problem. It all depends what I have to do afterwards in regards to my duties.

I always thought it was odd back in the 80s/90s that the West Coast DC School banned alcohol at lunch and even went so far as to prohibit folks from imbibing at any of the numerous drinking establishments on the Old Island Highway.  Yet, the East Coast DC School sold beer in the canteen. :nod:
 

Navy_Pete

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stoker dave said:
Hi folks.  Long time lurker here.  Just got around to registering. 

I have registered explicitly for the purpose of responding to that comment above.

Am a former MSEO.  I completed my training and contractual obligations, then left to work for an engineering company.  I have worked at various firms over the last 23 years (yes, it has been that long since I wore a uniform).

While there may be no rules against you having a beer at lunch, I will say that it makes you look ridiculous.  It shows you don't take your work seriously or your career seriously.  There are very, very few people I know (mostly engineers, engineering technicians and labourers) who would ever even consider having a beer at lunch.  Drinking is absolutely frowned upon by anyone whose job requires important decisions, operation of equipment or supporting operations.  At most work sites, drinking at lunch will get you fired. 

I have been to gatherings where there are, say, 100 people present (all senior engineering types).  All are drinking water or pop, except for four guys in uniform in the corner who are drinking beer.  They were the laughingstock of the meeting (but everyone was too polite to point this out).

So here's a lesson guys:  to be taken seriously, stop drinking at lunch.  It is not cool.  It is not generally a good idea.  It makes you look like an amateur.

Depends what you are doing in the CAF; if you show up to afternoon meetings after having a few beers at lunch, people will notice. Some units do have specific alcohol policies but most don't as you are expected to be an adult. It's a crazy concept.

Also, in the majority of the conferences, professional society meetings, defence exhibits etc all the actual networking and sidebars happens over coffee during the day and over beer/wine afterwards.

TL;DR you can have a beer and be professional if you understand the circumstances, don't be a judgemental dink now that you left the mob.
 

George Wallace

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Navy_Pete said:
TL;DR you can have a beer and be professional if you understand the circumstances, don't be a judgemental dink now that you left the mob.

Agreed on all counts. 

Being self-righteous, judgemental, or just plain off the wall offensive and treating others like children only makes for the likelihood of them beginning to act like children.  This just reinforces the opinion that the "PURITAN" culture we see in North America, that is not seen in other countries, is what drives some peoples views on alcohol.  Instead of 'educating' they find it much easier to 'condemn'.
 

Navy_Pete

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I find it ironic that while the CAF has policies to discourage abuse of alcohol, it's own internal policies and business practices seems to drive a lot of people to want to abuse alcohol to stay sane.

Things like spending weeks to get travel approval for Canada mandated meetings with contractors, the 3,765,831 approval gates within projects, numerous reporting requirements of the same information in different formats to multiple organizations (that generally ignore it anyway), consensus building amongst 'key stakeholders' to get any decisions made (only to have the final decision to delay making a decision) and the numerous hurdles you need to clear to get things done all make relaxing once in a while necessary to maintain sanity, and sometimes that means you have a beer while talking with people that is about something other than the ridiculous bureaucracy that you fight every single day (you can only spend so much time in the gym).

I'm more impressed things ever get done within our procurement / PM system than disappointed at the failures of large complex programs, given the ludicrous limitations and restrictions people have to fight through.  It also makes conspiracy theories laughable as there is no way any group larger than about 12-15 people can ever be that coordinated to pull anything big off in secret, let alone have 'the government' plan major crises to further some sneaky agenda.
 
J

jollyjacktar

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:goodpost:

I'm shocked to have been able to accomplish what I have so far.  Red tape city.  No wonder we want a drink at times...
 

Steve_D

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During my first stint in the CAF in the early 90's, I was an Air Force Transportation Officer. This was before email (actually, before we even really had computers). Going to the Officer's Mess for lunch and having a beer (and I mean just one) and having discussions with fellow officers more often than not lead to the resolution of issues that would have taken forever with memos, minute sheets and thousand milers. No one got "drunk". You went back to the office and closed the loop on those issues that got resolved by having a good 'face to face' with someone over said beer.

Alcohol is not the issue. It is the consumers who can not control themselves that are.
 

Pusser

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NavyPhoenix said:
During my first stint in the CAF in the early 90's, I was an Air Force Transportation Officer. This was before email (actually, before we even really had computers). Going to the Officer's Mess for lunch and having a beer (and I mean just one) and having discussions with fellow officers more often than not lead to the resolution of issues that would have taken forever with memos, minute sheets and thousand milers. No one got "drunk". You went back to the office and closed the loop on those issues that got resolved by having a good 'face to face' with someone over said beer.

Alcohol is not the issue. It is the consumers who can not control themselves that are.

Tangent:  the sad part is that email has not made this easier.  In fact, it has made it more complex.  In the old days, a single file folder circulated with everything on the subject contained inside (memos with minutes attached) so a complete understanding could be had by simply reading the whole file.  Nowadays, emails circulate and can be split into many strings with multiple attachments and addressees being added and removed (sometimes intentionally, sometimes not), with no real control.  It can get very confusing, to the point, where alcohol becomes an actual solution...
 
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